To Vikki - From PH school

[SaneAdam]

"To the same end there is absolutely nothing wrong with NOT being able to nose in hover, before starting on some basic circuits. Its nice to be able to do it, but you dont NEED it."

Yes you do need to be able to hover nose in before doing circuits??1!!!! Surely thats just common sense???? Or else how the hell do you control when it comes to the nose in part of the circuit lol??!!! Come on guys.... you know you need to nail your nose in!!!!!!!!!!! Unless you are content with crashing a lot. Stop justifying skipping orientation learning. There is just no justification for it unless you cant be bothered putting the work in?!? Its a bit childish this. Instead of the discussion going on here, half the people that cant nose in could have learnt by now on the sim.... Each nailed orienation is a gateway....... GET EM NAILED

[johnsandywhite]

I'm sorry SaneAdam, but I was actually doing lazy 8s and figure 8s before I could hold the nose in. It was doing so, that got me to the nose in position. I started pausing when at the 3/4 nose in position before doing the same on the other orientation. Eventually I TOLD myself, I AM doing nose in, so hold it there. Which I did for longer and longer periods. BUT, it is NOT necessary to do NOSE in to do circuits of figure 8s or any other figure you want to do it. IMH&MHO.

[simon1]

"To the same end there is absolutely nothing wrong with NOT being able to nose in hover, before starting on some basic circuits. Its nice to be able to do it, but you dont NEED it."

Yes you do need to be able to hover nose in before doing circuits??1!!!! Surely thats just common sense???? Or else how the hell do you control when it comes to the nose in part of the circuit lol??!!! Come on guys.... you know you need to nail your nose in!!!!!!!!!!! Unless you are content with crashing a lot. Stop justifying skipping orientation learning. There is just no justification for it unless you cant be bothered putting the work in?!? Its a bit childish this. Instead of the discussion going on here, half the people that cant nose in could have learnt by now on the sim.... Each nailed orienation is a gateway....... GET EM NAILED

Sorry dont agree at all, I learnt to hover tail in, then around 45 degrees side on, then onto very lazy eights, which progressed onto tighter eights and turning the heli more nose in towards me all the time. So I actually never learnt nose in at all, just through doing eights then slowing them down once the heli came towards me into practictly a nose in hover.

Everybody learns at different rates and in different ways, there is no concrete method of learning.

[jimmyhorns]

Yes you do need to be able to hover nose in before doing circuits??1!!!! Surely thats just common sense???? Or else how the hell do you control when it comes to the nose in part of the circuit lol??!!!

Answer: At no point in a figure of 8 circuit does the heli need to be nose in. It passes you side on, and you turn away from yourself at each end. So there is no nose in part of the circuit.

Although forward flight utilises the same control surfaces as the hover, and your stick inputs will have the same effect on the rotor disc, its a very different feeling, and you certainly have a lot more time to correct errors before badness happens.

I can only talk from my experience, but forward flight is a doddle compared with hovering, even tail in hovering. When I first ventured into it (not that long ago now) I did wonder what all the fuss is about. Like I said in my previous post, I actually found it a gateway into the nose in hover. In forward flight its very easy to just turn away from the nose in position without stoving it into the ground.

Your post I felt was needlessly agressive. No one here suggested that it is not useful to 'nail' a nose in hover, or that people cant be bothered to put the work in, just that it is not the only way of moving forward with their flying. Im sure there are plenty of people who manage circuits quite reasonably without being able to hover nose in within a 3ft box.

[ghost2212]

"To the same end there is absolutely nothing wrong with NOT being able to nose in hover, before starting on some basic circuits. Its nice to be able to do it, but you dont NEED it."

Yes you do need to be able to hover nose in before doing circuits??1!!!! Surely thats just common sense???? Or else how the hell do you control when it comes to the nose in part of the circuit lol??!!! Come on guys.... you know you need to nail your nose in!!!!!!!!!!! Unless you are content with crashing a lot. Stop justifying skipping orientation learning. There is just no justification for it unless you cant be bothered putting the work in?!? Its a bit childish this. Instead of the discussion going on here, half the people that cant nose in could have learnt by now on the sim.... Each nailed orienation is a gateway....... GET EM NAILED

+1 Doing proper banked circuits with the nose pointing at you is just dangerous without learning nose in unless you have prior airplane experience. I was doing good circuits before knowing nose in because of i just flew the heli like an aeroplane. I should of learnt nose in first though.

I think that Vikki's complaint was that she could hold all her orientations to a decent level so £80 to perfect them which could of been done by herself was just money down the drain. If your just practicing getting the orientations into a smaller holding area you don't really need a buddy box going :P

[Paulice]

Everybody learns at different rates and in different ways, there is no concrete method of learning.

But there are tried and tested ways of teaching, I teach all orientations first but i do wait till the heli is right on the verge of a crash before taking over, It might seem boring but orientations over flags speeds up the learning curve, and makes forward flight easier later.

[Idleup95]

I think tail in and side in are VERY IMPORTANT!

The lazy eight actually can teach you nose in, as I found, as your flying partially flying towards your self and unconsciously controlling the heli from that orientation as it flys back across you. Some people (including me ) get lazy eights and figure of eights confused

(At NO point of the lazy eight should the heli be facing the pilot)

However...I think that before ANY 3D is attempted, ALL orientations should be learnt because if you find the heli in the position where it is flying towards yourself, and you haven't learnt nose in...

This hobby CANT be rushed, time must be taken to learn which allows you to have fun but more importantly be in control and SAFE at all times


John

[Zeeflyboy]

I think that Vikki's complaint was that she could hold all her orientations to a decent level so £80 to perfect them which could of been done by herself was just money down the drain. If your just practicing getting the orientations into a smaller holding area you don't really need a buddy box going :P

I think this is the crux of it.

I can definitely see where they are coming from with this aspect. They could hover in all orientations, just not as precisely as the instructor would like... this is something you could spend a few minutes on with maybe a few tips given, after which it's just "homework" which they can very easily go home and do themselves without paying the instructor for the privilege. They obviously came with some specific goals in mind, and as a paying customers the instructor has to respect that where safety isn't an issue. This is especially true for someone who has come for a one-off type lesson rather than booking a course of lessons.

[debrooker]

think this thread is starting to head off on a tangent.

[GIXERMAN]

cant wait till they get to nose in inverted hehe

[johnsandywhite]

cant wait till they get to nose in inverted hehe

That's easy, it's the tail in inverted that is difficult.

[highlightshadow]

I'm learning it the way others have mentioned .... i got to the point where i could happily hover side-on, then i practiced switching from side-on to other side-on quickly so i could handle the change in orientaion but then moved onto a lazy 8 type move always away but now starting to pull into more diagnonal flight and getting used to seeing heli nose in.... i'll start doing nose in hovering soon too... but i felt that i needed a break from just hovering and moving in a hover so i pushed into FFF and turns

[muscleflex]

and to pass the A cert u only have to be able to hold the heli in a steady hover in a certain orientation for 5 seconds, he should have maybe tried some lazy eights at least with them or something IMO if their hovering was ok but not perfect.

That is actually not as easy as it sounds! A friend and I decided to practice the A test at the park on Sunday. As you all know, there was no wind on Sunday and I had my 500 pro with me. I still struggled even tho my orientations are good.

[Zeeflyboy]

That's easy, it's the tail in inverted that is difficult.

True that! I find tail in inverted much harder work than nose in

[bulnose]

Just out of interest,

How many crashes have u had so far ? (vikki and friend)