Mysterious shutdown?!?

[SaneAdam]

Ok. Got a Gaui X7 using the standard 500kv Gaui Scorpion motor with a 12 tooth pinion. Running a CC120hv, Vbar pro silver line, Outrage servos powered by a 2s pack. Running 2200 governed in idle 2 and about 1900 in idle 1. Had one very successful flight with no issues at all. Unbelievable performance and power form this set up...... very satisfying. Took off for a second flight and flicked straight into idle 1, all was fine and flew for about a minute before flicking into idle 2. Did a few very small but snappy pitch pumps before rolling cyclic to start an aileron tic toc, at which point the motor shut down, did a relatively successful forced auto into some very forgiving spongey grass so there was zero damage luckily.

When i got to the heli the cc was beeping a single beep every 30 secs or so, also the cc had an amber flashing light (which i presume just shows the log is active?) Both sat lights were solid so there was no drop in signal or anything. CC log was only recording a snap shot every 2 secs as it was set to long, so thats frustrating as what it shows flight mode wise does not correspond to what i did with the tx. It shows that after a brief period in idle 2 it goes straight to normal. But it cut out in idle 2 and i didnt touch the flight mode switch till the heli was recovered and shut down.

So what the heck happened? Am i pushing the limit of the 120? But if it shut down due to being overworked wouldnt it say so? Plus why did it not happen on the first flight when i was absolutely battering it to death? Surely it would have died at that point if it was struggling?

The Castle had just been updated to the very latest firmware. Could it be related to that in any way? Im a bit gutted its not an obvious problem as im not sure what to do other than revert back to previous CC firmware, maybe back the pitch off a bit and knock the headspeed down a bit and see what happens? But i don't want to do that. I don't want to compromise on performance because the first flight was out of this world so i know what it can do. I want to be able to run it as a power house without worrying if it can take it.

I have no problem dumping the CC and getting a Kontronik.... But only if that is defo the issue. I have tried to give as much detail as possible. Would really appreciate any kind of feedback

Thanks for reading

P.s The X7 really is a monster..... It flys like its weightless yet with inherent stability. Also very very impressed by my first Vbar experience. A different league for sure!

[cjcj1949]

How long between flights? Something may be getting too hot. Could be the esc or the motor. Or the battery could be too low or unable to provide enough volts under load.

[SaneAdam]

It was 20 mins between flights as there are a few of us flying. I double checked the temp before the 2nd flight and it was pretty much totally cooled. Batteries were all fully charged. Both sets are relatively new but i wouldn't have thought that would be a problem. It was pretty hot after the first flight but not too bad in comparison to the 7HV, Goblin, Rex 700 and Rave we all running similarly powerful setups. None running the 2200 i am though, the others max out at 2000 i think

[Jamin_00]

Is it a new motor, ESC and or batts?

Could be the solder connections on anyone of these if theres a dry one somewhere. I dont think it would be the CC fault and if anything it was doing the right thing if theres an issue somewhere.

Exhaust all possibilities before changing the ESC

[milly0812]

Be careful Adam that's what my CC120 did before it failed completely. I put it down to using my nanotechs but it may have been a warning of things to come

[cjcj1949]

You are the second person to have a fault with that esc. Same thing a sudden shutdown. Perhaps you need to measure the amps you are taking and see how close you are to the limit. It is difficult though as in order to produce the fault you'll need to fly very hard and a shutdown could be difficult to handle without a very hard landing. It could easily be related to the firmware update, or to the increase in load due to your increase in rpm. It could also be something else. They may be shutting down the esc to stop it being damaged and going up in smoke. To figure out a problem like this you need to find out how close to the limit you are. Just flying it isn't a reliable way of producing the same load. I think telemetry would be a good way to track down the problem and getting the 2S pack checked for internal resistance if the problem does only happen on a second flight. The problem has only happened once so you need more evidence. Gathering the evidence may cost more than a Kontronic though. I'm not sure that a CC is a good idea when you are pushing things.

[GIXERMAN]

have you checked your castle log? see if you have any big spikes etc

[SaneAdam]

Thanks guys. Yes Jamin all the kit is brand new other than the servos and the 2s pack. We have been through all the wiring and soldering and cant find any faults. Bit worrying though as like you say i wont feel comfortable flying it until i KNOW beyond any doubt that the problem has been located and fixed. Would spinning it up with no blades on and moving through the flight modes show anything? Or does the motor not really feel load until its feeling some resistance? i.e being flown? Im a bit green on the process of finding a fault like this. Hopefully between me and my mate we will be able to sort it. But i have looked through a lot of threads with peoples power setups and head speed n pitch requirements and there are lots using the 120hv with no apparent issues. Could the motor be faulty and have lost its timing or something like that? The thing that really gets me is surely it should have happened on the first flight when it was hammering it? Suppose it is the way of these things though. I gave it 5 flights on a 10t pinion for maiden and had no issues at all. So the fact it happened on the 12t on the second flight does point to some kind of overload. Maybe the overload cut off was set too low on the esc? Could that be a possibility? Im sure it was set right but maybe there is a quirk in the firmware?

fun and games eh.....

[GIXERMAN]

send clint akins a email helped me before clint@castlecreations.com and explain what happened

[SaneAdam]

Castle log shows nothing odd at all. Just show the fact it went from normal to idle 1, then to idle 2, back to normal then onto hold. Nothing shows any kind of surge... but i suppose it wont if the esc is doing its job as it would shut down before that wouldnt it? Or would it at least show the beginning of the spike before it could sense it and shut down?

[GIXERMAN]

castle log will tell you the max amps pulled tho, as previously said email clint. i had a problem with a pyro and 120 that he sorted.

[cjcj1949]

The current load depends on the work being done by the heli. That's work in the physics sense which is force X distance. The more force you are using and the further you move the more work is done. The work is in joules and joules per second is watts. Watts is volts X amps and so the amps directly relates to how hard you fly. That assumes the system is working correctly. If you load a motor so much that it stops then this all breaks down. Lots of current flows and things melt. You should be able to see how close you are to overcurrent shutdown. Hopefully it would be set to reduce power and not shutoff. I would certainly email Clint, especially if you are not sure about setup. I'm not sure what you mean by the motor losing it's timing. It hasn't got any, it just has coils of wire and magnets. (Unless you have a sensored motor)

You can load up the motor with the blades on and the heli strapped to the ground. Full collective will load it quite well at max revs. I'm not which parts of the heli to strap down. Just the undercarraige may not be enough.

[Carapau]

Try looking at your Vbar log. It may well be that the Vbar 'told' the ESC to shut down for some reason. It's a long shot but maybe in moving to the aileron tick tocks you were beginning to draw too much current from the RX power supply and this could have caused the Vbar to shut down momentarily or something. Anyway, it's worth having a look at the Vbar log.

[steve_b]

You could be near the limits of the CC 120HV.

I've got an X7 with a HKIII 4035-500 with the stock 10t pinion set at a headspeed of 2100, but I'm running a Helijive and logging using a JLog. When I've looked at my logs with this setup I've seen spikes around 180 - 190 Amps and regularly running over 100 Amps for a few seconds. I'm no 3D god either so if you're hammering it then perhaps you've 'tripped' the over current settings on the ESC and it's shutdown.

[SaneAdam]

To be honest Steve id love that to be the situation and hope that it is. Simple fix with either a cc160 or a Helijive 120.... i think anyway... My lack of knowledge of the tech side of this hobby does inhibit in trying to explain and get to the bottom of issues.... i just know how to fly em... in a fashion anyway. I hammer my 550 and my collective management is pretty good now to the point where the machine rarely bogs during pretty fast tic docs and other moves so im pretty controlled and accurate to a point. Never had an issue with my 550 or 600. But even with my limited knowledge i realise neither will be working near the load that the x7 wil be with that scorpion. Saying that though... i do have a Kontronik on that. Finding out if the esc actually is the issue is the hard part. Unless somehow the side sliders on the dx18 have been activated for either flight mode and or hold and i have caught one on the tx as i have been flying?!??!? Will have to check that...