B test schedule

[3dbasher]

I think Disc has hijacked his own thread!!!!! LOL


ooops not discs thread!!!!

biggles did you get the email i fowarded you entitled visit?

[Arwel]

I was told by Paul Heckles that the 'B' was going to change a bit- that was over a year ago! How about a 'C' for Heli??

[Rainman]

Since when was the bmfa qualified to judge safe flying????.....Going on some of their stuff I have seen at 'another club' and at their shows with their pilots!!!!

The BMFA is a sum of all its members. That would include most of the members of this forum!

Therefore the BMFA (i.e. you and me plus many thousand others) are qualified to judge safe flying. If you see some unsafe practice, it is your duty to do something about it! after all we are both some of "their pilots"

As far as the achievement scheme is concerned, the hovering M is a dangerous manouver - why? Because not only does it involve the helicopter being flown in close proximity to the pilot and examiners, but, if flown properly, involves a substantial part of the rotating parts of your helicopter (1/2 of the disc and all of the tail) being behind the pilot and therefore between the pilot and the pits / spectators. There can never be any justification for placing the helicopter in such a position within the BMFA safety code. The helicopter should always stay in front of the pilot.

The replacement for the hovering M is a 4 point pirouette.

The description given for this manouver is as follows:

The helicopter is in its normal take-off position, normally 5 - 10 meters in front of the pilot. Lift off into a stable hover from the tail in position. The machine is then rotated 90 degrees and held in that position for about 5 seconds. Rotate a further 90 degrees in the same direction and hover for 5 seconds. Two further increments of 90 degrees with the same hover time is then carried out, finishing tail in and land.

It is at the examiners discretion as to which way the helicopter is piroueted. The clear inference is that the candidate must be competent in both directions.

This change has been a long time in coming and was a unanimous decision passed at the Area Council. It does appear however that certain parts of the competition element are not happy with this democracy


Full Marks to the BMFA (now there is something you don't hear everyday)

Richard

[Biggles]

biggles did you get the email i fowarded you entitled visit?

yip sure did

[Biggles]

The BMFA is a sum of all its members. That would include most of the members of this forum!

Therefore the BMFA (i.e. you and me plus many thousand others) are qualified to judge safe flying. If you see some unsafe practice, it is your duty to do something about it! after all we are both some of "their pilots"

As far as the achievement scheme is concerned, the hovering M is a dangerous manouver - why? Because not only does it involve the helicopter being flown in close proximity to the pilot and examiners, but, if flown properly, involves a substantial part of the rotating parts of your helicopter (1/2 of the disc and all of the tail) being behind the pilot and therefore between the pilot and the pits / spectators. There can never be any justification for placing the helicopter in such a position within the BMFA safety code. The helicopter should always stay in front of the pilot.

The replacement for the hovering M is a 4 point pirouette.

The description given for this manouver is as follows:

The helicopter is in its normal take-off position, normally 5 - 10 meters in front of the pilot. Lift off into a stable hover from the tail in position. The machine is then rotated 90 degrees and held in that position for about 5 seconds. Rotate a further 90 degrees in the same direction and hover for 5 seconds. Two further increments of 90 degrees with the same hover time is then carried out, finishing tail in and land.

It is at the examiners discretion as to which way the helicopter is piroueted. The clear inference is that the candidate must be competent in both directions.

This change has been a long time in coming and was a unanimous decision passed at the Area Council. It does appear however that certain parts of the competition element are not happy with this democracy


Full Marks to the BMFA (now there is something you don't hear everyday)

Richard

The M has been considered dangerous for years!!!! How can you say well done to the bmfa for finally listening to the voice of reason after all these years. More like about bloody time!!

It's more like the bmfa have been lucky there has not been an incident with this part of the test. Remember it is a test and tests can be failed!! Especially if part of your heli hits you.

[robgt]

Well, thats my "engine running in" flight entertainment stuffed now... I usually keep myself entertained by doing the B test manoeuvres whilst pirouetting - but how would you do a pirouetting 4 point pirouette

LOL
Cheers,
Rob

[Steve]

Well, thats my "engine running in" flight entertainment stuffed now... I usually keep myself entertained by doing the B test manoeuvres whilst pirouetting - but how would you do a pirouetting 4 point pirouette

LOL
Cheers,
Rob

Easy - just pirouette!

[Rainman]

The M has been considered dangerous for years!!!! How can you say well done to the bmfa for finally listening to the voice of reason after all these years. More like about bloody time!!

It's more like the bmfa have been lucky there has not been an incident with this part of the test. Remember it is a test and tests can be failed!! Especially if part of your heli hits you.

Yes, WE have been lucky in my opinion. Yes it is about bloody time in my opinion. The BMFA can only listen to the voice of reason if that voice of reason has been raised. I am lucky enough to know the full history about the Hovering M change. It has taken too long for this to be sorted. Unfortunately due to the way the BMFA is structured, It does take some time for these type of changes to be made. I have been working on the recent heli A and B tests changes for over 3 years. It has been demoralising and frustrating as each stage including the wording of proposals have to be voted on......the price of democracy


Richard

[Ade_Law]

trouble is that the equipment has advanced and come down in price so much in the past 5-10 years that they just cant keep up.

5 years ago it was rare to see somebody doing much beyond loops and rolls looking at the level of flying going on at dmhc we have several pilots that if they put their mind to it could easily come well inside the top 10 at clubman3d.

the B cert is supposed to show that you are competant to fly at shows how often do you see B cert level flying at a show?

somebody mentioned the B cert fixed wing scedule. there are lots of things in that which you couldnt do with a large scale piper cub so really there is no excuse to put more aerobatic moves into the B cert.

Ade

[Biggles]

trouble is that the equipment has advanced and come down in price so much in the past 5-10 years that they just cant keep up.

5 years ago it was rare to see somebody doing much beyond loops and rolls looking at the level of flying going on at dmhc we have several pilots that if they put their mind to it could easily come well inside the top 10 at clubman3d.

the B cert is supposed to show that you are competant to fly at shows how often do you see B cert level flying at a show?

somebody mentioned the B cert fixed wing scedule. there are lots of things in that which you couldnt do with a large scale piper cub so really there is no excuse to put more aerobatic moves into the B cert.

Ade

Ade, not quite sure what you are saying?? In one sentance you are saying "how often do you see B cert level flying at a show?"

In the next you are saying "so really there is no excuse to put more aerobatic moves into the B cert."

Confused????

[Ade_Law]

i mean how ofted do you just see people doing B cert level stuff at a show... curcuits, stall turns bit of hovering and some nose in?

im saying the B cert is out of date and needs to reflect the type of flying being done at shows.

it would also give people something higher to aspire to working towards. another option that has been mentioned is a C cert for helis however getting tested for a fixed wing C cert is a joke! you need the top level guys to do it which is pretty difficult to organise.

Ade

[Rainman]

the B cert is supposed to show that you are competant to fly at shows
Ade

Wrong

The A or B Certificate is a personal achievment. Some clubs use the A as a guide to "safe solo level" and some show organisers use the B as basis for pilot ability, however the A and B Certificates form part of the Acheivement scheme.

The BMFA Nats organisers do insist on a B cert for participation in the event, but that is the organisers choice. Anyone who has flown at Sandown would also be aware that you had to fly the Sandown test, regardless of your ability!

Richard

[Biggles]

Why not have an auto as if it is a public show then surely being able to control your heli 'dead stick' in the desent and land would be in the interest of public safety.

Well executed piros show that you have control of the heli from which ever way you are viewing it.

[Rainman]

Why not have an auto as if it is a public show then surely being able to control your heli 'dead stick' in the desent and land would be in the interest of public safety.

Well executed piros show that you have control of the heli from which ever way you are viewing it.

Auto's are another can of worms

There are pro's and con's for this to be included. The splinters in my ass show I am on the fence at the moment.

Richard

[Biggles]

Wrong

The A or B Certificate is a personal achievment. Some clubs use the A as a guide to "safe solo level" and some show organisers use the B as basis for pilot ability, however the A and B Certificates form part of the Acheivement scheme.

The BMFA Nats organisers do insist on a B cert for participation in the event, but that is the organisers choice. Anyone who has flown at Sandown would also be aware that you had to fly the Sandown test, regardless of your ability!

Richard

Sounds more like to me too much grey area for an insurance claim. If you had an incident at a public show the first thing the bmfa are gonna look at is if the pilot had a B cert and then if the answer was no then they would possibly say your on your own sonny.