Chaos, pyro flips

[moyesboy]

I have been experinmenting starting nose in.
My manoevre has a half piro for each half flip, ie a ratio of 1:1.
The heli starts nose in, as it flips to what would be tail in inverted it yaws 180 degrees so it is nose in inverted, then it completes a cycle to nose in right way up again (sometimes its even in the same county and reasonably still!).

Looking at the phoenix chaos demo the heli does a complete piro turn in the time it takes to do a half flip - ie it a ratio of 2 piros per flip, one yaw rev per half flip.

Is there a correct version?
To be truely "chaotic" I guess it should not be a whole ratio so the heli points different directions each time it is right way up...that sounds difficult

[warboysastro]

Just remember they're 'piro'(uette) flips.

Pyro flips are when your heli turns over, on fire

Cheers - Rob

[Sesame]

my hats off to anyone that can do this manouver and still have a helicopter in one piece at the end of it.

only ever attempted it in Sim, and I either head skyward or groundward.

[moyesboy]

I eased into it by hesitating the flip with the nose straight up and doing a 180 yaw before proceeding to nose in upside down.
But maybe I'm only doing a half hearted chaos (purpose of the post), and anyway I never got through more then 2 cycles without heading off into fast forward/backwards/sideways.

Don't take your hat off to me, I went to a fly in on sunday where I was definitely the least competant pilot to fly - and that included a couple of kids under 12. Seems rest of the amateurs didn't like the wind!

[philiphenderson]

On the sim or at the field climb high. Drop to zero pitch and let it fall. Add rudder and rotate that cyclic (left rudder go clockwise, right rudder go anti-clockwise). It'll do a full piro flip as it falls. Just stop when it's upright again and before hitting the ground. Now get used to holding the rudder in place without worrying about touching the pitch. When you have you can move on to controlling it's decent.

Phil.

[robgt]

Just stop when it's upright again and before hitting the ground

Heh heh heh - nice one
Gordon, what you're describing sounds a lot like what I started out attempting when on the road to learning Chaos. It's a step in the right direction...

As far as I know, full blown chaos has 1 revolution per flip - and it's fast.
But there are variations on the theme which in my book all still count as chaos - like 2 revolutions per flip...
Cheers,
Rob

[moyesboy]

On the sim or at the field climb high. Drop to zero pitch and let it fall

I could do with a 500ft deep hole to stand on the edge of to do that one!

[philiphenderson]

You'll be surprised that it doesn't fall like a stone.

Having the collective at zero pitch will stop the heli shooting off in all directions as long as you've no forward speed in when you start.

Try it on the sim.

Phil.

[Sesame]

being serious for a sec, I can get a few revolutions happening in the sim but little to no control in direction, which in a sim is ok, but its that bad I would not even consider doing it in the field.

not unless I really didnt like the heli/club members LOL

still I must be improving a little, I dont get the adreneline shakes every time I go inverted now

[robgt]

It sounds likely that you're using too much pitch...
Try a bit less and see what happens

Cheers,
Rob

[Sesame]

I'll give it a go, wanna get up the nerve to try it the field nice n high of course.

its like I think its called death spiral, heli on its side spinning round its horizontal axis(if that makes sense) on the sime I can do it every time missing the floor, but for some reason I just can't bring myself to try it just yet.

[robgt]

Just go up really high, tip it over and do a couple of revolutions, then pull out gently (don't overload the head) still quite high...
You know you want to
Cheers,
Rob

[Sesame]

I'll give it a go while im test flying the new Titan at the weekend lol.

I've definately got to push myself, if I go home without at least trying something new/hard then Im dissapointed.

[philiphenderson]

Don't go breaking that Titan...it was expensive.

Phil.

[moyesboy]

Back to the original subject
It does just need a stab of collective timed to act while the heli is upside down, or right way up. Any other collective will send the heli off in one direction another. The collective is of course just the same as in a continuous normal flip, or roll - so if you can't keep those near stationary its not going to work.