legality / enforceability of so called 'clearance fees'

[trillian]

You can however clear the goods yourself or assign a customs broker of your choice to clear the goods,

That's one choice I would like to have had, along with being able to just decide not to purchase the item in the first place. Keep in mind here we're not talking about something I could have gone down to a local shop to buy, this was a special offer made to me by Sony and the only shipping choice was Fedex, they charged almost £21.00 to deliver two CDs ! Then they want another £10.00 !!!!!! So tell me, how long does it take for them to 'clear' each parcel? A half hour? an hour? Forget it, they even say in the explanation letter with the invoice that they often don't even know if a parcel has incurred a charge until afterwards!!!!! You're going to tell me they pay someone £10.00 an hour and that person spent an entire hour doing nothing else but meticulously dealing with the intricate details of my parcel ??? Puleeeeeezzz :-) I know better and you know better.

[Mark_T]

1, trillian should have been informed in advance about possable charges by fedex. (and on them grounds i to would fight not to pay the charge)
2, that fedex do have the right to charge for there part at customs, but they should also have informed trillian (and every other customer) about a possable charge on or before delivery

I'd still put Sony rather than Fedex on point here.

Sony engaged Fedex to perform the task, with Trillian's agreement, then Sony indicated to Fedex that Trillian would pay the fees and taxes, it is up to Sony to make it clear to the customer that they are responsible for any and all fees and taxes involved in the import.

It is then for the customer to decide if they want to import on that basis.

I think Sony have attempted to cover it in their T&C but they do look to be less than perfect in their wording and a lot less than transparent.

This subject does come up relatively often though and I'm a little surprised that any regular poster on here could claim to be unaware of the fees charged by couriers/Royal Mail for customs handling

[trillian]

I'd still put Sony rather than Fedex on point here.

Sony engaged Fedex to perform the task, with Trillian's agreement, then Sony indicated to Fedex that Trillian would pay the fees and taxes, it is up to Sony to make it clear to the customer that they are responsible for any and all fees and taxes involved in the import.

It is then for the customer to decide if they want to import on that basis.

I think Sony have attempted to cover it in their T&C but they do look to be less than perfect in their wording and a lot less than transparent.

This subject does come up relatively often though and I'm a little surprised that any regular poster on here could claim to be unaware of the fees charged by couriers/Royal Mail for customs handling

I am aware of Parcelforce / Royal mail's £8.00 fee but the BIG difference is that they tell you about the fee at the time they deliver the item. Never have I heard about something being delivered with nothing whatsoever said about any fees only to have a letter arrive a week later with an invoice!

And yes Sony needs to get a little grief about this because they chose Fedex and charged an exorbitant cost for shipping in the first place giving the customer no choice of posting method or company on a product that only cost something like £25.00, so to then have the shipper come back for another £10.00 is just madness.

I'll just add, at this point I deeply regret starting this thread, why I did I'll never know, lesson learned. 'Seems everyone else is more than happy to pay fees like this and I'm the odd one out thinking it's just a little bit wrong that I was not informed at the time of the sale and that it would seem like £20.95 should be more than enough for delivering two CDs (personally for that amount they should have come in and cooked me a gourmet breakfast as well, but I digress).

[Mark_T]

I'll just add, at this point I deeply regret starting this thread, why I did I'll never know, lesson learned.

It has been a very helpful thread though, if nothing else it will have made people aware of the way Fedex handles imports so nobody else who reads it will be surprised the way you were.

I still hope you get the resolution you desire in this case though.

[unwind-protect]

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that the courier (or Royal Mail) should be compensated for the extra effort involved in delivering the packages to Customs, completing paperwork and handling the collection of VAT/Duty and re-collecting the packages before continuing with the delivery as planned

Nobody is saying they shouldn't. They're saying that this is an expected part of the delivery process, and so should be included in the delivery fee charged to the supplier. It's not like the delivery company doesn't know where the package is going, or the local regulations!

[ModelGuard.Com]

You're going to tell me they pay someone £10.00 an hour and that person spent an entire hour doing nothing else but meticulously dealing with the intricate details of my parcel ??? Puleeeeeezzz :-) I know better and you know better.

Business doesnt work that way. For every £10 a business pays an employee it has to earn £80 plus to pay for all the infrastructure rates ni etc. Just take a look at what the hourly rate at your local car dealership.
Now divide 1hour by 8 to get a more realistic amount of time £10 buys you. Probably around 7.5 minutes. Sounding more realistic for a form fill ?

[ModelGuard.Com]

Nobody is saying they shouldn't. They're saying that this is an expected part of the delivery process, and so should be included in the delivery fee charged to the supplier. It's not like the delivery company doesn't know where the package is going, or the local regulations!

The courier has no previous knowledge of whether or not customs charges will be levied. Ive bought stuff costing £100 from the usa and been charged £25 fee. Ive also bought other things costing over £500 and not been charged a penny.

Its all to do with how its worded and which box is ticked on the original customs form. Some hobby stores know what to put to help us ( and themselves ultimately) and some dont. Sony is obviously one of the latter

[trillian]

Business doesnt work that way. For every £10 a business pays an employee it has to earn £80 plus to pay for all the infrastructure rates ni etc. Just take a look at what the hourly rate at your local car dealership.
Now divide 1hour by 8 to get a more realistic amount of time £10 buys you. Probably around 7.5 minutes. Sounding more realistic for a form fill ?

Weeeeeell, I tend to think Fedex is a wee bit bigger than your local car dealership and all that infrastructure was well in place for the delivery process itself. As I said, I don't think you'll find a team of employees pouring over paperwork for each and every package, that's just totally unrealistic (and would have been streamlined long before now if it was ever the case). I'm sure they do way more than break even for this extra 'service'.

[unwind-protect]

The courier has no previous knowledge of whether or not customs charges will be levied. Ive bought stuff costing £100 from the usa and been charged £25 fee.

The courier has no idea whether the van will break down and have to be towed back to base, or get lost, or the pilot have to go-around or divert. These are all absorbed as the cost of doing business. There is precisely zero reason why the cost of filling in some forms shouldn't be handled similarly.

Once again, this is not about the import duty or VAT. It is a charge levied by the couriers.

Business doesnt work that way. For every £10 a business pays an employee it has to earn £80 plus to pay for all the infrastructure rates ni etc

I'm glad I don't go to your garage!

[millerman]

Weeeeeell, I tend to think Fedex is a wee bit bigger than your local car dealership and all that infrastructure was well in place for the delivery process itself. As I said, I don't think you'll find a team of employees pouring over paperwork for each and every package, that's just totally unrealistic (and would have been streamlined long before now if it was ever the case). I'm sure they do way more than break even for this extra 'service'.

no they do have teams of people doing this as fedex and the other intergrators import thousands of packages a day in to the uk and its not as easy as it sounds i know i have the customs tariff and done export and import high and low value and bulk entrys they are very time consuming.

[ModelGuard.Com]

The courier has no idea whether the van will break down and have to be towed back to base, or get lost, or the pilot have to go-around or divert. These are all absorbed as the cost of doing business. There is precisely zero reason why the cost of filling in some forms shouldn't be handled similarly.

Once again, this is not about the import duty or VAT. It is a charge levied by the couriers.


I'm glad I don't go to your garage!

Ive run a succesfull business for over 30 years. Ive employed dozens of people, I know what i am talking about. I used a car dealership as one example. Check it out if you dont understand. They charge around £60-100 per hour per person.

To say that costs are absorbed by the business is topsy turvy. Its the other way around. The costs of the business are costed out and charged to the customer.

[TomW]

Trillian.

I agree with your principles, but unfortunately you have next to no chance of fighting this through any courts etc. Dont you think others would have tried already? At best you could sweet talk the guy on the phone as Millerman suggested and waive your fee.
TBH you have wasted more than £10 in time, in business terms then your now £80 down, so at best your still £70 out of pocket/time!!!

You may think it highly unlikely that the courier will use a debt recovery agent to recover £10, however as i work as a debt collector i can assure you many companies do just that. Also be aware they can charge admin fees in most cases for doing so. Theres also the option of taking you through the courts at YOUR cost for the unpaid £10, which will mount up to nearer £100 by then.

The courier is a large international business, if the fee wasnt legal i doubt they would impose it.

Good luck if you take them on legally though, it would open a right big can of worms

[Smoothound]

In my humble opinion the way most DCA's works is nothing short of bulk processing and I would be well surprised if any would actually pursue a debt of £10 even if it was solid gold and attainable! They buy debts from all the usual sources for somewhere between 5p and at the outside 20p in the pound and I would guess at least 50% of those debts are turkeys that they will never turn into cash because if they were viable the original creditor would have gone to court anyway! To be fair the original creditor has often already got his loss sorted by his insurance company so can't be arsed but if they think they can win they will happily go to court as well Any they can't realise and give up on they sell to the next DCA down the food chain

[trillian]

TBH you have wasted more than £10 in time, in business terms then your now £80 down, so at best your still £70 out of pocket/time!!!

Crikey! I had no idea a few minutes of not working was costing me so much! I better not take any time out to have lunch tomorrow then, and god knows what a day out flying must cost me :-)

[jwatts007]

Is it worth getting upset over a tenner, I would just pay and learn a lesson and next time I would be all the wiser.........