Ccpm Or Not???

[ChrisB]

Another thread just got me thinking,,

I flew Rappys for a fair while and in the end fancied a change to something newer although i wish i waited until the 600N

Anyway the Raptor flew much better with a different head,,i tried the underslung TDG head and the Tz head and both improved the flight characteristics

I never considered non CCPM to be a burden,,so is CCPM really any better??

All opinions considered,,,also the Non CCPM Sceadu does fly extremely well,,


So can we have good and bad points for both systems please....

I personally am totally commited to Align now,,,especially after purchasing five of the buggers,,but is there life in the ole Rappies and Sceadus still??

[Ashley Davis]

MHW did a comparison of the eCCPM and mCCPM knight 50s, the conclusion was that there's really not much in it and both work as well for 3D flying. Although mCCPM has less issues to resolve around interaction. Although mCCPM has some minor interaction issues as well originating from the floating aileron servo usually mounted in the collective pitch seesaw arm.

Personally I like three servos taking the strain of the collective rather than one big mother of a servo. Although with todays high power stuff I doubt there's much in it.

[mattie-lodge]

I like eCCPM for the same reason as Ash. It is slightly harder to set up correctly but I think it is worth. Less links and more direct control.

Matt

[Ashley Davis]

Certainly some eCCPM systems have less linkages which can reduce overall slop in the control system.

[ChrisB]

Thats a good point,,the Raptor and Sceadu do have a lot of links,having said that they were never troublesome

Its probably six of one and half a dozen of the other

Modern powerful servos are very capable of coping on their own with a control especially on a 50 size bird,,maybe less so in a 90

I always steered away from CCPM but i do like the clean and uncluttered layout,the KNIGHT SPORTwas pretty good but i prefer to have push pull now as the 600`s have

[Boggy]

from a beginers point of view i have to say i like the simplicity of the raptor set up.i built it as per the manual and it flew.my son is buying a 600n basic i,m wondering is it going to be as easy for him to get right first time?
i have also got my little trex which started life as a HDE and then i converted it to ccpm. it was twitchy then and still is, but now its a hell of a lot more complicated to set up right after a crash!but hey practice makes perfect.as for better flying i dont know its never in the air long enough!! (it does seem to hover better though)

so perhaps for a complete beginer non ccpm is easier but doesn't take long to out grow

[Nutz]

If you like playing with set-ups and getting things perfect eCCPM
If you don't like playing with set-ups mCCPM, it is easier to set up.

[kevinh]

i didnt mind the eCCPM on the TREX, what made it harder was:

1 it was 1st eCCPM setup
2 My controller doesnt support it per say had to put PMIX's in to obtain it,
still might have interation, puts a bit off aback elevator in on collective,

just out of interest how do you get rid of it, everything set 90 degress at centre stick etc.
pitch setting is at 0 degress at bottom stick 5 degress at half stick and 9 degress at full stick, this is done by pitch curves, setup for a begineer

[ChrisB]

Youll be wanting one of those new fangled Cyclocks then

[kevinh]

looks like it then,

should have my spares tomorrow to repair it, tail fin dug in the grass last weekend and flipped it over damaging a fair bit, once its repaired ill have another go at getting rid of the interation

[LipolyGone]

You have some good points there Chris, I find Raptors still to be good enough for my skills level. I find them easy to setup with standard parts & standard head etc. I had a Caliber once & set it up for eccpm what a horrid experience. I think I had to get Ade to set it up for me in the end, good egg that he is he soon had it set up ready to fly for me.
I'm now at the point where I'm thinking seriously about gettng the wallet out for another 50 size. Ive had an offer of a Raptor 50 Titan & I am very tempted but is it just same old same old or a worthy addition to my fleet.
My only other real option is a knight 50 sport but again I here horror stories about mods needed to get them flying right. Then there is the Nitro basic, too new to hear too many horror stories but I'm sure there will be a few. All this kinda forces me to carry on down the road I am already walking i.e the Raptor 50 Titan purely because I know the machine.
Regards Martin

[Ade_Law]

im my experience noobs rarely get the setup right on a mechanical mix heli so it always needs sorting. They do manage to get it to a point where it will fly ok but far from correct.

so giving them a CCPM heli normally means they have to seek expert advice. in my book this is a good thing. it stops them from going it alone flying in a park and possibly killing somebody. Sounds a bit harsh i know but safety is a major priority

as for which is better in the air it depends which models you are compairing. the Knight 3d is one of the best CCPM designs. shared shaft with push pull takes the load off of the servo mounts.

the raptor mix is accurate however its let down by the flexibility of the servo tray and the fact that the collective acts accross the servo rather than along its length. this is partially fixed with the titan push/pull system but its a long way from being perfect.

the sceadu evo50 mechanical mix is in my book as a mechanical mix gets. solidly mounted push pull bell cranks and correct geometry meaning you get no collective to cyclic interactions.

the other end of the range are things like the shuttle and the hawk the main problem is the lack of the elevator rocker meaning that as you move the collective and slop in the system shows up as an elevator trim change. just to make things worse there is no intermediate bell crank meaning the pivot points for some of the levers are in different locations which only adds to the elevator interaction.

the trick with CCPM is to use 3 servos which are the same age and wear. setup so that all the horns and bell cranks are 90degs at centre stick with no sub trim and 100% end points. Also make sure the horn lengths are such that your swash mix values are not too high or too low.

personally i prefer CCPM 3 servos almost direct onto the swash gives low slop and the mechanical setup of the servos done correctly leaves you with little or no interaction...

doesnt mean a cyclock isnt a good thing tho.

Ade

[ChrisB]

Good points raised by everyone and i totally agree with Ades overall assesments of each model

Its very accurate and fair

[Ade_Law]

as always

Ade

[853sp]

Ade's first two points are right on the money. Without advice from Paul Heckles, my TRex 600 would never have flown other than into the groung at a great rate of knots. Hell of a learning curve but the best two and a half hours for less than the cost of a 600xl motor. (although probably not the best comparison to make !)

Andy