Auto's again

[MartinH]

Im practicing Autos again and sometimes struggle to build enough headspeed so I often bail out so was wondering whats the best way to build up inertia is, is it the actual fall from height or the flair at the end.
Sounds a daft question but id like to get them going soon.

[Nick B]

If you get the right pitch on the decent the hang time is longer.

Try hitting hold on a steady decent in IU so you dont lose any HS.

Maybe someone could do a pheonix recording with the TX on screen so you can see what they is doing

[MartinH]

If you get the right pitch on the decent the hang time is longer.

Try hitting hold on a steady decent in IU so you dont lose any HS.

Maybe someone could do a pheonix recording with the TX on screen so you can see what they is doing

Think I have one actualy :/ lol

What I usualy do is climb as high as I need to and then hit TH (I dont bring it to a hover or anything), piro around to the correct way and start descending.
I know its all about practice but if I can pick up tips thats handy .

[sacko]

Best vid I ever watched for autos, was the Curtis Youngblood Autorotation class.

Well worth the watch!

[Nick B]

I have just done one

Try hitting hold on way down,Martin.That way you dont lose any energy in the HS

[chris jones2.4]

One the way down put the nose down and build up abit of headspeed tht way, or if u set middle stick as zero pitch and float it down, when ur about 20 foot of the floor push the nose down and then flair at the end and add all if pitch

[alex]

The flair at the end is not enough to gain much headspeed as it is so short time wise and if you have lost the headspeed on the way down you will not get it back- you get the headspeed from the descent and the negative pitch maintaining the headspeed you had- if you put in too much positive pitch and "hang" too much, you will also bleed head speed, leaving you nothing to play with at the end when you flare.

You need as much head speed as possible to give you the stopping effect from the positive pitch you put in as you flare and land- th elower the head speed, the less lift that positive pitch will give you. ( edit - sorry -that bit sounds patronising :P)

What is your throttle hold pitch curve looking like? It should be straight from 100 to 50, then the next point is at about 20-25% ie the end point on your Y axis of the pitch curve. That way you can go bottom stick and not worry about where you are pitch wise on the way down when you are practicing. Mine is at 25%.

I spent a whole day on autos the other day and thought about it a lot. Practice with some wind- it will give you some nice head speed as long as you are doing the autos into wind. The wind will also help you maintain headspeed if your ptich control on the way down is not great and also allow you to get some head speed back if it drops too much. Let the heli drop on bottom stick and you will have tons of head speed, so you can even do some forward flight before flaring to land.

Practice powered descents on the line you are going to use- it gets your eye in and allows second nature control so all you have to think about is the pitch.

I hope this helps- I must have done 60 or 70 autos that day and no damage.

[pgkevet]

....Also worth remembering that too much negative pitch will use up rotor inertia in coming down faster than gravity..

[MartinH]

The flair at the end is not enough to gain much headspeed as it is so short time wise and if you have lost the headspeed on the way down you will not get it back- you get the headspeed from the descent and the negative pitch maintaining the headspeed you had- if you put in too much positive pitch and "hang" too much, you will also bleed head speed, leaving you nothing to play with at the end when you flare.

You need as much head speed as possible to give you the stopping effect from the positive pitch you put in as you flare and land- th elower the head speed, the less lift that positive pitch will give you. ( edit - sorry -that bit sounds patronising :P)

What is your throttle hold pitch curve looking like? It should be straight from 100 to 50, then the next point is at about 20-25% ie the end point on your Y axis of the pitch curve. That way you can go bottom stick and not worry about where you are pitch wise on the way down when you are practicing. Mine is at 25%.

I spent a whole day on autos the other day and thought about it a lot. Practice with some wind- it will give you some nice head speed as long as you are doing the autos into wind. The wind will also help you maintain headspeed if your ptich control on the way down is not great and also allow you to get some head speed back if it drops too much. Let the heli drop on bottom stick and you will have tons of head speed, so you can even do some forward flight before flaring to land.

Practice powered descents on the line you are going to use- it gets your eye in and allows second nature control so all you have to think about is the pitch.

I hope this helps- I must have done 60 or 70 autos that day and no damage.

Yeah thats help thanks mate, well all of your posts have.

My pitch curve in TH is default at 0 25 50 75 100

And with the wind, well its always bloody windy up there lol, its usualy coming from behind and I auto from the right.
I posted a thread I think it was last weekend where I did land the Autos but they where a little heavy, not to much but enough to knock the engine off now and again I also lost some CY tail blades but thats life lol.
I even tried some with the 450 yesterday lol.

[alex]

Hence the settign your throttle hold pitch curve to what I suggested- that way you will not plummet like a stone when you hit bottom stick and you will get that lovely rewarding noise of blade flutter as you come in to land

My curve was suggested by Chris- I am still very green at this and this worked well for learning

[MartinH]

I have just done one

Try hitting hold on way down,Martin.That way you dont lose any energy in the HS

Thanks for that one, will try that way tomorow.

Hence the settign your throttle hold pitch curve to what I suggested- that way you will not plummet like a stone when you hit bottom stick and you will get that lovely rewarding noise of blade flutter as you come in to land

My curve was suggested by Chris- I am still very green at this and this worked well for learning

So were talking

L25 INH 50 INH 100H
is that any good mate.

if so then the way youve described what happens is what im after.

[Ashley Davis]

vertical drop speed creates potential energy, which you can convert back to kinetic energy in the head when you get to the bottom and flare.

The issue is the way in which you generate the potential energy. For most just floating down at -5 is enough. For experts you can tip the nose down and start to drop nose down, speed builds very quickly and when you bring the nose up at the bottom you get a massive burst of extra headspeed, the reason this is for experts is that when you tip the nose down if you get it wrong the head will stop..... it requires some practice.

[p4ddy]

When i auto i make sure to swing the tail round 1st, enter foward flight then hit hold but i make sure i got fast enough foward flight to bring the heli infront of myself. Without that initial foward flight i lose HS fast & end up doing an almost vertical auto. If i get the foward flight bang on i dont need to do much with the collective exept watch it glide in with loads of HS for enough flare to bring it tail in & land smoothly.

[alex]

Thanks for that one, will try that way tomorow.



So were talking

L25 INH 50 INH 100H
is that any good mate.

if so then the way youve described what happens is what im after.

That's the one

Also, gradually build your altitude that you start from- you can get some rotor speed back if you have a high velocity ie drop fast to gain that potential energy then flare with negative pitch- the forward movement of the heli as it is flared will drive the blades faster before you apply positive- I guess the mental picture is a heli going forwards, tail down at about 30-40 degrees with negative pitch, imagine a wind turbine and you are forcing it through the air to drive it with the forward movement of the heli- my brain is starting to hurt now

[MartinH]

That's the one

Also, gradually build your altitude that you start from- you can get some rotor speed back if you have a high velocity ie drop fast to gain that potential energy then flare with negative pitch- the forward movement of the heli as it is flared will drive the blades faster before you apply positive- I guess the mental picture is a heli going forwards, tail down at about 30-40 degrees with negative pitch, imagine a wind turbine and you are forcing it through the air to drive it with the forward movement of the heli- my brain is starting to hurt now

lol thanks Alex

When i auto i make sure to swing the tail round 1st, enter foward flight then hit hold but i make sure i got fast enough foward flight to bring the heli infront of myself. Without that initial foward flight i lose HS fast & end up doing an almost vertical auto. If i get the foward flight bang on i dont need to do much with the collective exept watch it glide in with loads of HS for enough flare to bring it tail in & land smoothly.

Thats bascailly what happens at the mo, I hit TH then piro around and its like a vertical drop, I try to bring it forward but theres nothing.

Ill try all the above tomorow and hopefully will go ok .