Going Flybarless without gizmos...

[maderdog_1024]

came across this on youtube;

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nInaVCmi_nM&feature=fvw]YouTube - Trex 600 ESP Multiblade Head with 600mm FRP[/ame]

it has got me wondering what other ways the flybar can be removed without 3 axis gyros.

more blades will obviously mean more drag, but also more lift. ?


does anyone make a 4 blade rotor system ?

mike

[nukey]

came across this on youtube;

YouTube - Trex 600 ESP Multiblade Head with 600mm FRP

it has got me wondering what other ways the flybar can be removed without 3 axis gyros.

more blades will obviously mean more drag, but also more lift. ?


does anyone make a 4 blade rotor system ?

mike

Its not a bad head for the price , My friend flies the exact head on a 600e in a MD500D body, looks and sounds very nice. He also has no multiblade control system, its all controlled via the TX.

Sportsmoto current sell a 4 Blade head for trex 600

[antsis]

more blades will obviously mean more drag, but also more lift. ?


does anyone make a 4 blade rotor system ?

I use 530mm blades on my multi head. Compared to the standard 2 x 600mm blade setup, 5 x 530mm blades increase the blade area by 120%, so plenty of lift. Alas more drag and load as well.

Sportsmoto do a 4 blade head for the 600 size;

model helicopter 4 blade scale cnc alloy heads for 500 and 600 helicopters sportsmoto

My 5 blade head came from these guys in the US;

RC Aerodyne - Ultra-Realistic Radio Control Models & Hobby Accessories

[j42]

sorry for jumping in. I have seen a lot of talk about flybarless heads since I started with heli's again whats to point to them.do they make the heli more agile or somthing.

cheers

[oneandonlyian]

5 blades =5 times more cost too

[GravityKills]

5 blades =5 times more cost too

this takes cost savings to the next level... how do you manage to fly on one blade?

A two-blade flybarless 600 is quite manageable, if the mechanics are set up correctly. I sometimes turn off the gyros to find out the phase error of the head. It flies quite OK. Of course, with 10 degrees of cyclic pitch, expect some roll rate...

[jamiem]

Antsis on here has experimented with mutli blade head iirc, perhaps he could offer some words of wisdom on this. I remeber reading that the most efficient setup would be a counter balanced one blade, as it wouldn't be in the wash of another blade.

[pchristy]

The reason for having a flybar is to slow down the response rate ("following rate") of the rotors to something that human reactions can cope with.

There are other ways of doing it, and each has advantages and disadvantages.

Using electronics is one way of doing it, but does involve handing over a degree of control to computers. Purists (oh, alright - Luddites!) may not approve of this!

The other way involves following full-size practice and weighting up the blades - possibly also with an articulated head.

The Agusta below uses a fully articulated head, but standard 55cm blades - albeit four of them!



This Lark has a teetering head and 110 gram blades:



As far as making things more agile go, without some sort of stabilisation, the machines are quite simply uncontrollable!

Neither of the machines shown above could be considered aerobatic, though the Lark probably comes closest!

They do look good though, and having the bottle to fly something without artificial assistance is good for the Kudos.....!!!



--
Pete

[maderdog_1024]

im interested in experimenting with a 4 blade set up, i now have a spare 600 to mess about with :-)

[electricsceadu]

with the sceadu fbl i'm using std sab carbon blades
and limited the cyclic pitch to 7*
and at a sensible head speed the heli flies well without the electronic's
once the head speed is wound up the around the 2000 + mark the cyclics become very sharp and a loop turns into an instant flip in a blink of an eye
addind expo into the cyclics on idle up mode has helped slow the flip/roll rate on the heli

on my shuttle 3 blade the head is just a little sensitive (as again no electronics) but it still needs final setting up and is on 3, 550 blades
the head will be going onto a scale lama once set up fully

[themagician]

3 bladed head

with the sceadu fbl i'm using std sab carbon blades
and limited the cyclic pitch to 7*
and at a sensible head speed the heli flies well without the electronic's
once the head speed is wound up the around the 2000 + mark the cyclics become very sharp and a loop turns into an instant flip in a blink of an eye
addind expo into the cyclics on idle up mode has helped slow the flip/roll rate on the heli

on my shuttle 3 blade the head is just a little sensitive (as again no electronics) but it still needs final setting up and is on 3, 550 blades
the head will be going onto a scale lama once set up fully

hi ,what blades are you using & what weight are they?.
what make of head is on your shuttle.

[GravityKills]

... to slow down the response rate ("following rate") of the rotors to something that human reactions can cope with.
...
As far as making things more agile go, without some sort of stabilisation, the machines are quite simply uncontrollable!
...

I can assure you, my reactions are far from superhuman. Actually, I fly like grandma most of the time
A 550, 600, 700 size unstabilized flybarless heli is very manageable for an experienced flyer (those are the sizes I have tried myself). At 450 size, it gets a bit tricky:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpL9jU8duxA"]YouTube - 450 RC heli, flybarless, unstabilized[/ame]
but, if I can piroflip the "beast", you'd expect that most people with some experience will be able to at least fly it just fine.
As for pilots that are lacking the experience, why move into "experimental" territory?

BTW: With a V-bar one could also gradually turn down the stabilization over several flights, so it's no jump into the cold water.
I use bank switching, because I'm only interested in the phase error, not really in flying unstabilized.

The equipment has improved tremendously. What matters most are probably servos with several times the holding power, and better blades.
If it was near impossible 20 years ago, this doesn't tell much about a modern heli.

[maderdog_1024]

for some reason it does not seem to be all that big in the UK, but the yanks are keen on using multiblade heads.

the sk360 digital flybar looks a good route to go and does not over complicate things, you retain your original gyro and its supposed to be easy to set up.

does anyone have links for multiblade heads ? 3/4/5 blade setups

i have found this;
http://www.scaleflying.com/product_p/lhtb-21.htm
cheers

mike

[Boggy]

there is also these

model helicopter 4 blade scale cnc alloy heads for 500 and 600 helicopters sportsmoto

[antsis]

Antsis on here has experimented with mutli blade head iirc, perhaps he could offer some words of wisdom on this. I remeber reading that the most efficient setup would be a counter balanced one blade, as it wouldn't be in the wash of another blade.

A counterbalanced blade would work to a degree. In the nineties, I remember seeing C/L racing planes with a counterbalanced prop. However, with a helicopter, the blades are acting as a wing, so I would think that if you tried one blade, its wing/blade area would have to be increased to provide the similar amount of lift. Increased area requires more power and produces more drag, so it would be easier to stay with a conventional setup.

Understand this is only a theory and is not necessarily correct.