Heli - FW mixed Clubs

[Gate88]

Although our local club has always been predominantly fixed wing, there has been a rise heli only members like me joining and while the ratio is around 20% heli & 80% FW it looks as if the balance is shifting further toward heli’s.

On the whole we all get along very well, and we manage to find enough flying time to keep both camps happy even if this does mean heli’s & FW’s in the air at the same time.

But we are seeing signs of resistance which prompted the club chairman to write on our website stating the club’s position on equality between FW & Heli members. He then went on to say that as heli’s tend to fly closer in to the pilots then the rules & boundaries need looking at in the future.

The simple solution is separate flying days but I’m of the opinion that this would not only upset some of the more long standing members but also drive a wedge between the two groups and as it is only a small club and there is rarely a large turnout this would limit everybody’s flying days so I wouldn’t like to see that scenario.

I am keen to put forward solutions that could keep everyone happy without dramatic changes to the constitution and was wondering how other mixed clubs are run in terms of having both types of model at the field at the same time.

[debrooker]

as a suggestion, how about dividing the day into 30 minute slots. On the hour planes, at 30 minutes past the hour helis. Might be difficult to administer but more palatable than one day for helis another for planes.

Does have the benefit that no one has to wait that long.

[nightstalker]

if there going to give you heli guys days you can and cant fly make sure you dont have to pay the full membership, bit unfair you have to pay full fees but dont get the full use of the club like people that fly both.

Im in a full heli only club but my past clubs twinwoods MAC was both planes and helis and we found it worked great as the planes flew higher than helis and we all stood together and kept each other informed when landing or dead sticks.

My other club st neots MAC well that was a crap one, they had a stupid rule that heli pilots could only fly on the hour for 10mins and no planes was allowed to fly at that time and only 2 helis up at once but when you have 9 heli pilots up at the club with 10 plankers well you could see that waiting every hour for 10mins to have a flight took ages some hours later.

But if you all get along great at your club might be just worth having a good chat with them all at the club rather than the committee making there mind up see what people think

[DT39]

Is there a possibility to start your own Heli club with the members you have in the current club.
The mixed club thing never hardly seems to work from what i keep hearing.

[debrooker]

My other club st neots MAC well that was a crap one, they had a stupid rule that heli pilots could only fly on the hour for 10mins and no planes was allowed to fly at that time and only 2 helis up at once but when you have 9 heli pilots up at the club with 10 plankers well you could see that waiting every hour for 10mins to have a flight took ages some hours later.

Crikey.

[Steve]

All you need is a designated area for hovering.

When a plane lands (or goes dead stick for instance and needs to get down in a hurry) they will always head for the active runway, which will be determined by the direction of the wind on the day. As a plane flyer, I don't want to be attempting to land on the strip when someone is hovering a heli right over the designated runway at 6 feet off the deck!

All flyers need to be aware of the very separate hovering zone and runways.

Now once a heli is flying around the sky, then it don't matter - planes and helis can fly perfectly happily together once they are out on the circuit. What's the difference between 2 planes flying around at the same time, to 1 plane and 1 heli flying around together?

Sort out the take-off and landing zones clearly, make sure everybody concerned understands and abides by the rules, and everyone can fly as and when they feel comfortable.

Job done.

[debrooker]

Is there a possibility to start your own Heli club with the members you have in the current club.
The mixed club thing never hardly seems to work from what i keep hearing.

Our club is mixed and works well as a number of people fly both - i'm even thinking of buying something fun like a funjet also.

The problems can start from small things such as preventing a plane from landing - its always better IMO to nip any issues in the bud quickly before they escalate. Sometimes just speaking to the person at fault at the moment of the mistake (and by and large they are) is enough to ease both parties.

[HAWK 30]

The local club I joined early this year was predominately fixed wing , I had my reservations about joining the club,
am I going to get a chance to fly how are the guys going to take having a heli up in the air at the same time as FW, surprisingly, it works well. We have a max four models up in the air at anyone time, us with helis stay out of the FW flyers and give them the room they need.
Since the start of the year the number of helis has grown, there are 8 of us possibly 10, out of a total membership of 50. Out of the 50 about 10 active FW flyers and 6 heli.
We also have a hovering patch which is very useful for setting up and for beginners.
Some of us took up FW as well, so we can beat them at their own game J
　
Like you said having separate flying days will cause problems. One of the best part of this hobby is the social side at the field and the banter between the plank flyers and the helis.
Good Luck

Z

[DT39]

Our club is mixed and works well as a number of people fly both - i'm even thinking of buying something fun like a funjet also.

The problems can start from small things such as preventing a plane from landing - its always better IMO to nip any issues in the bud quickly before they escalate. Sometimes just speaking to the person at fault at the moment of the mistake (and by and large they are) is enough to ease both parties.

That's good to here that it's working for you guys.

[marktigere1]

I agree with Steve.

Our club has two runways in a cross formation.

Depending on the wind direction, one of the two becomes the active runway for the day. (If the wind changes direction, then the other one becomes active etc)

Its then a very easy matter for the Heli pilot to decide where to take off, hover, land etc.

I was not sure when I joined the club initially, but now it is accepted practice and with everyone being reasonable, it works well.

Cheers

Mark

[scallybert]

[...]On the whole we all get along very well, and we manage to find enough flying time to keep both camps happy even if this does mean heli’s & FW’s in the air at the same time.[...]

So what's the problem you're trying to fix ?

From what I've seen, helis & planes tend to fly in different ways, and effectively use different air-space. Hence it's often not a problem to have both in the air at the same time.

We've got a separate hovering area (slightly, but not far, away) from the strip and flight-line. People can fairly happilly practice BMFA A style manoeuvres there, while planes &/or helis fly off the flight-line.

OTOH, full-on 3D flying seems to take up the whole site - or at least can do.

The other thing about our club is that there's a lot of cross-over. Loads of people fly planes & helis, or at least have an interest in both. I'm sure this helps us get along.

I suspect that if a club needs to start having rules about time slots, etc, it's probably indicative of some other kind of problem. Maybe inter-personal ones; or perhaps just too many people trying to fly in too little space.

Reasonable behaviour and communication is probably what you need.

[Steve]

Reasonable behaviour and communication is probably what you need.

Exactly, but also built on a well thought out and safe flying site and rule book.

[Gate88]

Is there a possibility to start your own Heli club with the members you have in the current club.

The mixed club thing never hardly seems to work from what i keep hearing.

Although I have access to a field where the owners turn a blind eye to one or two heli's I think they might take exception to more than that.

I joined the club for the interaction and to be honest, in 8 months on my own I could only ever hover around, compare that to the 3 months I've been at the club, I'm flying circuits, stall turns, nose in & passed my A cert. So it has it's advantages.

All you need is a designated area for hovering.

We do have a designated hovering area which is fine for setup & novices etc but once you progress from there you need to be on the actual flying field.

Our club has two runways in a cross formation.

Depending on the wind direction, one of the two becomes the active runway for the day. (If the wind changes direction, then the other one becomes active etc)

Its then a very easy matter for the Heli pilot to decide where to take off, hover, land etc.

It's more a problem of flying a heli in the periferal vision of a FW who's pilot flying big circuits, I tend to stand on the far left of our flighline and fly out to my left which means I am becoming very familiar with that orientation but not learning much on my right hand side.

[Gate88]

So what's the problem you're trying to fix ?

From my perspective I dont really have a problem, it works ok at present and I dont mind flying while FW's are in the air, I am simply trying to make heli's and our style of flying more acceptable to the FW members so that we can fly without friction or politics with a long term view to attracting more heli members.

And you're right, reasonable behavior and communication are what's required which is why I have posted this thread to see how other clubs opperate so that if dialogue is required I know what I'm talking about.

[crash-alot]

I would love to think helis and planes can share the same airspace. Until one day a £100 FW and my £1000plus heli collides... You need to rely on your skill and that of others, for that not to happen.

I think a lot depends on the attitude of the club members. Some will never tolerate helis and there will be always friction. The only way both can fly happily together is if there is proper communication between members and a club constitution that doesn't discriminates against anyone.


Jaco