F3C hover practise?

[GravityKills]

Hello,

does anybody know of good hints how to practise the F3C hovered moves efficiently?
I just spent some time in the sim and noticed that some things are actually pretty darn difficult for me:
- lifting off with a constant climb rate - getting out of ground effect
even worse
- landing with a constant rate of descent - getting into ground effect without bounce (and staying out of "grass effect" )
- the transition from steady hover into forwards flight
- ... probably the list is much longer, but I noticed those.

So what I'll do is try to break it down into small pieces and practise them one by one. But, if anybody has good hints how to practise, or a good link, I'd be most grateful. The competition is on Saturday

[trillian]

I am interested to see more mention of F3C lately. I am keen to see a competition and see what those guys do.

I'm interested in the idea of being very precise (and I'm a long way off from being anywhere near such a description as yet).

[GravityKills]

this might give you some idea:
ftp://www.fai.org/sporting_code/sc4/...copters_09.pdf
note it will change next year.
There are also different classes, "Eurosport" and "Popular" which are easier.
I can't say I enjoy the hovering, but it's the only competition we've got, beggars can't be chosers...
On the other hand, I love some of the "upstairs" moves - favourites A5 and A7.

[MrB]

I've a feeling the tx needs to be seriously set up just for that aspect- credit to those top guys though they make it look sooooo easy

[TrexMADuk]

Just watch this !

rrTV Video

[Tombo242]

That is just fantastic, something for everyone to aim for. You control the heli not waiting for it to get into the right position for you.

Thanks for that great post TrexMADuk.

[Butuz]

Wow that video impresses me more than most of the stick banging vids I see. So much control and discipline.

Something for me to aim for for sure!

By the way what heli was that in the runryder vid?

Butuz

[pchristy]

That was Curtis Youngblood flying his new machine (watch this space!)

A lot of people don't realise just how difficult it is to do many of the "boring" hovering manoeuvres! Descents are particularly hard as you are descending into your own downwash, which makes the heli very nervous! And when you get into the aeros.....

Remember that the manoeuvres have to be done in sequence and without a break. It has to be done on time and in the right place, not when you feel like it! Have a look at some of the guys flying the "C" schedule - it will blow your mind!

The videos don't really show just how fast those models are going, or how big some of those manoeuvres are! Come along to the Nats and watch the top dogs in action! It may well give you something to think about!

If there's enough interest, we might be able to do a demo at Charmouth, but it will take up the *whole* flightline for about 10 minutes!

Cheers,

--
Pete

[Brian Gifford]

I've just watched the vid, first ever F3C, and it's blown me away! The control & precision is awesome! I don't see how anybody could describe that as boring. It's not the full-bore adrenaline rush of 3D, but IMO, it's every bit as skilful.

Brilliant thread, thanks for opening my eyes.

[GravityKills]

...Descents are particularly hard as you are descending into your own downwash, which makes the heli very nervous!

thanks I can confirm that
Now what do I do about it...

[Jamin_00]

Also check this one out by Scott Gray in 2006

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZcuGUy2IOc]YouTube - Scott Gray Schedule B F3C[/ame]

I'm just looking at getting a machine for this purpose as there are a few guys at my field that fly this style and it looks so awesome,the level of skill and concentration needed is crazy.

[GravityKills]

...the level of skill and concentration needed is crazy.

hehehe those local hardcore F3C guys I know tend to be very quiet on forums. They don't participate in most of the oh-my-god-I'm-such-a-3D-hero BS talking. Still, at least some are frighteningly good :-)

BTW doing this kind of stuff in Phoenix online is a sure way to get you kicked or banned. I collect those incidents like trophies

[pchristy]

thanks I can confirm that
Now what do I do about it...

Practice, practice and more practice!

Also, the machine setup for F3C is VERY different from 3D. Most 3D pilots get hold of an F3C machine and think its stodgy! It Isn't - the controls are very powerful - but during the aerobatic sequence, the model is probably travelling close to 70 mph, so no matter how fast the roll rate, its going to look stretched out and slow!

For F3C its *extremely* important that the model is trimmed to perfection. You should be able to take your hands off in fast forward flight and have it continue in a straight line from horizon to horizon. Similarly for hovering, it must sit there hands off for prolonged periods.

Once you've got the model flying straight, then you have to get it to roll perfectly axially and at the same speed in either direction. All models roll one way better than the other - helis ain't symmetrical - so getting it right in its "bad" direction is quite an art! It also needs to pirouette equally well in either direction - again something that few models do out of the box!

I've watched Mark spend half an hour just flying is fast straight lines up and down the field, giving it a little tweak here and another one there before he was satisfied. Only then does he move on to setting it up for aeros!

You need to have the model working with you - not against you - and that takes patience and experience. And that can only be gained by constant practice!

--
Pete

[snapshot]

A lot of the trim mentioned above is mechanical trim, not just radio assisted trim!

An F3C machine is not just slung together in a few evenings, everything has to be mechanically perfect, balanced perfectly. There must be little or no slop in the control linkages etc., then there is blade choice, paddles and weights.

Then the pilot skills come into play and that's down to experience, practice, practice and more practice.

I'm currently setting up 2 T-Rex's for F3C, not the best machine for the job but it can be done. But it won't happen over night, but that's another story...

But once they are set up it will be hours and hours of practice in all wind conditions. I can just see some of the 3D guys at my field taking the mick, but it's all in fun. It's each to their own and enjoy

[pchristy]

A lot of the trim mentioned above is mechanical trim, not just radio assisted trim!

An F3C machine is not just slung together in a few evenings, everything has to be mechanically perfect, balanced perfectly. There must be little or no slop in the control linkages etc., then there is blade choice, paddles and weights.

That's absolutely right! You need to get the thing as near perfect mechanically as possible before you even think of using the trimming features on the Tx! Also, flybar length, paddle weight and paddle area are a critical area for trimming. Very few F3C pilots fly the stock "out-of-the-box" setup. If you get the flybar set-up just right, the model won't move off the spot when a gust hits it! Hard to believe, I know and very difficult to hit that "sweet spot". But I've seen Mark demonstrate this. When a gust hit his model it just bobbed up and down a bit, but didn't move from the spot where it was sitting!

Very impressive when you get it right!

--
Pete