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**Brian Gifford** · 11-05-2009, 11:06 PM

Don't know what to say, Eddie. Every day, there's more & more insanity in the news. Kids turning feral, you name it. I'm glad I'm not young, TBH.

**Dashik** · 11-05-2009, 11:10 PM

Lack of discipline and structure in there lives. Still no excuse their scum.

**Brodie6** · 12-05-2009, 12:06 AM

Is it just lack of discipline and structure tho?, I think times have changed greatly since I was a nipper and I'm only 38 now, I didn't have much structure in my life as a kid and kinda went thru the whole bad crowd, police at my door but it was all pretty petty stuff, my Dad used to be a dab hand with his fists and a leather belt too but it wasn't enough to stop me from getting into trouble, in many cases the parents are to blame for their children's actions but there are a whole lot of influences out there now and kids see far too much online, on tv, and in video games, the culture of violence is huge here and in the States and the justice system is far too lax on minors, look at the case of Jamie Bulger, the two that killed him in the sadistic manner that they did are now out, are completely protected and can now live out the rest of their lives whilst the Bulgers will live with what happened to their little boy till they die, it can't just be the parenting that causes kids to become killers.

Eddie, sorry to hear about Ralph, it's awful, and even worse when you know the victim and spent some time with him.

**Dashik** · 12-05-2009, 12:10 AM

I did not say abuse and a beating, I said discipline and structure. there not the same.

If you have rules and a structure in life for children they know there boundaries. Sure they will try and stretch them and it wont work for all but generally I find most kids in trouble lack guidance these days or a focus in there lives (unless they nick one :P)

**chemicalbro** · 12-05-2009, 12:15 AM

i think a big part of the problem is that we are now seeing the generation of kids who were born to mothers who were no more than kids themselves.

what can a single teenage mum possibly teach a child about life and what is right or wrong when they have hardly experienced it themselves

**Stuart** · 12-05-2009, 12:18 AM

Sorry to hear the news Eddie, but whole heartedly agree that as a nation we are losing control of basic civil sense with I fear a growing level of kids.

I know that a fair % of the kids are good and yes the councils could be doing a hell of alot more to get the kids motivated. A prime example was in the village we used to live in where 99% of the teenagers had nowt to do and the locals got sick of them wondering the streets so they put a ban on kids after 9pm, then spent 60k on a kids park for under 5's....

well I reckon unless your in fulltime education once your 16 or if memory serves me right its moving to 18 by the time my second oldest get's to colleage your walked from school right into national service for 2 yrs minimum - depending on attitude whilst being at her majesty's leisure.

This will focus them on getting educated or ducking for cover one of the two....Maybe drastic but I rekon we need it

**Brodie6** · 12-05-2009, 12:32 AM

[quote=Dashik;271294]I did not say abuse and a beating, I said discipline and structure. there not the same.

Now, now, I'm not saying my parents abused me mate, this was back in the day when men thought that the way to bring disobedience under control was a good smacking, if it was abuse then every school up till 1986(ish) would be culpable for abusing children every time they dealt out punishment with the belt/strap/cane etc, it was a different time and there was a hugely different attitude towards kids back then.

Again, I'll reiterate, my parents did NOT abuse me.

**Dashik** · 12-05-2009, 12:46 AM

[quote=Brodie6;271301]

Originally posted by Dashik View Post

I did not say abuse and a beating, I said discipline and structure. there not the same.

Now, now, I'm not saying my parents abused me mate, this was back in the day when men thought that the way to bring disobedience under control was a good smacking, if it was abuse then every school up till 1986(ish) would be culpable for abusing children every time they dealt out punishment with the belt/strap/cane etc, it was a different time and there was a hugely different attitude towards kids back then.

Again, I'll reiterate, my parents did NOT abuse me.

And I'm not saying they did, just to be clear, what I am saying is that theres a line between chastisment within discipline and then theres abuse.

Equally there was a lot more respect from kids when the prospect of a little bit of physical punishment was around. Today they all know there rights etc etc.

**Brodie6** · 12-05-2009, 01:23 AM

Hey Dashik, that's cool then, wouldn't want to give people the wrong idea, they (parents) were pretty harsh but I would never say that what they did was abuse, I believe they just thought that was the only way to get thru to me, things have changed so much and the whole parenting game has become a mine field of do's and don'ts, I always said that when I had kids I wouldn't treat them like my parents had treated me re the physical side of things and still won't but I have to agree with you on the fact that there used to be a lot more respect from kids, I can't even imagine having the inclination to do what these kids have done but that was through common sense and not fear of a beating.
I certainly don't agree with National Service either as I did my stint in the army when I was sixteen and it made me fight against authority even more and I still can't get on with it today.

There is no easy fix to the problem unfortunately, another result of the complacent governing of our country and the influx of influence, and another side to this story is the police, what efforts are being made to stop what's going on in this country?, I see plenty of work going on that will bring money into the force ie Speed Cameras, cop cars hiding out to catch tax evaders etc, this is all great but more time could be spent on the streets rather than sitting around waiting for some idiot to pass by at 80 so they can hand out a fine and earn a bit of cash for their coffers.

I'm going to shut up now cos I could go on ALL night about how bad this country is getting and how wide the divide is between those who have and those who have not.

**trillian** · 12-05-2009, 01:39 AM

This kind of thing worries me as well.

When I was a kid we got up to mischevious things but the worst thing I even knew about was that I knew someone that stole a bicycle. Our idea of being nasty was throwing bog roll paper all up into someone's trees in their front garden, or ringing the bell and running away.

When I was in school there were no stabbings or shootings in schools, now some 20 years on and my old secondary school has a tall fence around it and a full-time policeman during classes.

So when did this trend start and why?

Why is it, for example, that Stonehenge had been there for thousands of years but in the 1980's they had to put a fence around it to stop it being graffittied or vandalised?

Something happened in society, slowly I guess, and now we see the results.

It's sad to see this happening. But the answer is not just building more jails, it is figuring out why, why kids have gone so wrong and how to turn it around. But having said that, I kinda think when it comes to murder, the gloves should be off, they should be tried as adults and named etc. because at that point they have gone so far over the line of kids just being kids or whatever, and it becomes society's need to be protected and for someone to face the consequences of such a serious action, if for no other reason than as a deterrent.

In the meantime I will quietly be looking for better places to live on the planet.

**Eddie** · 12-05-2009, 07:50 AM

Many thanks to you all for your well thought comments......to top it off.....I work with this guy....

Dad kicked like a football by young thugs - Portsmouth Today

.......I really dont know what to say.....but as an ex serviceman we need some sort of National Service to bring some authority and pride to a percentage of youngsters...

**trvo** · 12-05-2009, 09:03 AM

Sorry to hear that Eddie, it's always hard to hear when friends are victims of behaviour like that. There's no excuse for it.

I for one believe that there's no adequate punishment for kids (and adults) when they do wrong - the system is soft. At school about 6-7 years ago I once witnessed a kid pushing and hitting the teacher and all the teacher could do was stand there and take it - if he'd protected himself he'd have lost his job. The world is in favour of the criminal these days and not the victim and that needs to change in order to bring back discipline and 'acceptable' behaviour.

I've noticed things going down hill in the 23yrs I've been growing up - makes me wonder what's going to happen when these thugs have kids...

Trev

**Mikee** · 12-05-2009, 10:13 AM

I was a teenager in the 60's.. this would have been a major murder, in them days..today it's just another statistic........... life then,well ... it was just like the TV series "heartbeat" in those days.. Respect and discipline

Sadly like most things.. it is long gone... we live in a terrible world now,where people can do this at such an early age.

**guest222** · 12-05-2009, 11:36 AM

Eddie for Prime minister !!!! Get National service up and running again !!

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