BMFA Certs and Flybarless

[Sao]

I wonder if you will be able to take the A and B certs using one of the new flybarless systems?
I believe they basically use 3 gyros to work and last time I looked the BMFA handbook said only 1 gyro could be used....

So, assuming you cannot currently take them with a FBL system who wants to place some bets on how many decades it takes the BMFA to accept them as useable for flying the test patterns?

[phockzie]

Do they or can they be modified by the owner to keep the helicopter stable in the air without input from the pilot? If they can then in my opinion they should not be allowed.

Does a FBL system make it easier to pass the cert?

[Smoothound]

I wonder if you will be able to take the A and B certs using one of the new flybarless systems?
I believe they basically use 3 gyros to work and last time I looked the BMFA handbook said only 1 gyro could be used....

So, assuming you cannot currently take them with a FBL system who wants to place some bets on how many decades it takes the BMFA to accept them as useable for flying the test patterns?

You worry too much mate!

Who cares

[phockzie]

and stop showing me you're thumb, i'm going to vom...

[richieclarkie]

Put it this way I would let you take your test with a flybarless system.

However if I though the heli was being aided in any other way . i.e. heli command then I'd obviously refuse.

[Sao]

Do they or can they be modified by the owner to keep the helicopter stable in the air without input from the pilot? If they can then in my opinion they should not be allowed.

Does a FBL system make it easier to pass the cert?

I don't think the heli will just sit there with no input, it's not an auto pilot as stated in the manuals. The FMA autopilot thing is a different matter entirely.

I don't think it will make it any easier, if you can't do the stuff in the cert routines then having a flybarless system isn't going to help you out in the slightest.

It's a bit of a blurred line, the FBL systems do help with the stability of the heli without sacrificing performance or cyclic response, it replaces a lot of mechanical stability that a normal flybar system has built into it.

Put it this way I would let you take your test with a flybarless system.

However if I though the heli was being aided in any other way . i.e. heli command then I'd obviously refuse.

That's the answer I was looking for
I hope all examiners are as clued up as you

[richieclarkie]

That's the answer I was looking for
I hope all examiners are as clued up as you

The heli examiners I've met are all pretty clued up really so I would be suprised if any refused. If you were planning to use a flybarless then I would still check before to make sure whoever was doing the test was cool about it.

Flybarless systems (I've flown both the CSM and V Bar) do not fly by themselves, in fact I would argue they are no eaiser to fly than flybarred. Personaly I don't like flying them, they just feel all wrong.

What makes any heli easier to fly is the tendancy to self level. Flybarreless don't do this, you would need a contra for that ...... or a heli command system

[Ashley Davis]

Agree, if anything flybarless makes it harder not easier.

[Sesame]

Agree, if anything flybarless makes it harder not easier.

Yes but its not always the practical application that is the problem, if the rules state that there can be only 1 gyro in use(ive not looked the rules up, but I seam to remember reading something like this at some point) then a flybarless system using more than one gyro will be against the regulations, regardless of if its giving the pilot additional help or not.

just a thought

[pchristy]

Personally, I'd ban ALL gyros..........!!!



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Pete

[richieclarkie]

As examiners we are given guidelines but we are supposed to take sensible decisions based upon circumstances. For instance we are supposed to ask "would I feel safe that this person". This much more subjective than determining a whether a flybarless system give some aid to flying.

It could easily be demonstrated there is no advantage to flybarless systems so I would happily conduct a test with one.

[richieclarkie]

Personally, I'd ban ALL gyros..........!!!



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Pete

was hoping you'd come out with some long speel... instead...........

[moyesboy]

Yes but its not always the practical application that is the problem, if the rules state that there can be only 1 gyro in use(ive not looked the rules up, but I seam to remember reading something like this at some point) then a flybarless system using more than one gyro will be against the regulations, regardless of if its giving the pilot additional help or not.

That is the sad truth. The rules do actually state not just that a gyro can only be used on the yaw axis, but that no additional stabilisation sysyems are allowed on the swash. I think they read like the FAI rules for F3C.
If it was as simple as any control system that makes the test easier is not allowed, then the examiners would need to have a collective agreement as to what that means. If a rule had said that 20 years ago then we wouldn't have head lock gyros and we wouldn't be able to fly 3D, model helis would still be a rare and expensive thing.

By the way you can't now use a DX6i for the 3DX comps becuase no system that artificially enhances crack manoevres is permitted

In an ideal world you could have a single club rule saying everyone must fly safely and with due consideration for others, and there would never be any arguments.

[pchristy]

was hoping you'd come out with some long speel... instead...........

Well, if all gyros were banned, I might actually stand an outside chance of winning something.............!!!



--
Pete

[richieclarkie]

Well, if all gyros were banned, I might actually stand an outside chance of winning something.............!!!



--
Pete

At least you've got a chance