BMFA Club bulletins

[Disc]

i wouldnt mind becoming an examiner, must read some more in to it to see what required/invloved. ive had my b for a year now, so i know im eligable, id just like to be able to put something in my the club to help more people progress as we currently dont have any examiners.

Same here we have a few heli pilots but few with the required 'B' I'd need to improve my flying a bit more yet in a few places.

But i'm going to go for it in the summer

[Disc]

A point if I may, as far as I am aware the B cert is the MINIMUM required to be able to apply to fly at the nats, it is not a certificate to say you can.

And now a question, can someone explain to me why if your heli got over your shoulder why you wouldn't turn and face it?

I was told a helper at the NaTs requires a 'B' as well ?

[Big A]

I was told a helper at the NaTs requires a 'B' as well ?

Dunno!

[Disc]

Er does anyone know what they decided to do ?

Has the 'B' been changed again ?

[Big A]

Yes, as of May 1st the 4 point pirouette and pilots pirouette are being replaced with a 4 point pirouette with landings.

Perform one Four Point Pirouette with Landings
The helicopter is in its normal take-off position, on the take off/Landing pad (TOLP) and tail–in to the pilot. The model lifts off into a stable hover from the tail in position is held in that position for about 5 seconds. The model is then rotated 90 degrees and then landed on the TOLP, sideways on to the pilot.
The model again lifts off into a stable hover in the sideways on position and is held in that position for about 5 seconds. The machine is then rotated a further 90 degrees in the same direction to the nose in position and then landed on the TOLP, nose in to the pilot.
The model again lifts off into a stable hover in the nose in position and is held in that position for about 5 seconds. The machine is then rotated a further 90 degrees in the same direction to the sideways on position and then landed on the TOLP, sideways on to the pilot.
The model again lifts off into a stable hover in sideways on position and is held in that position for about 5 seconds. The machine is then rotated a further 90 degrees in the same direction to the tail in position and then landed on the TOLP, tail in to the pilot.
This completes the manoeuvre.
The helicopter must rotate either clockwise or anti–clockwise for the entire manoeuvre. The Examiner will state which direction he wishes to see. The clear inference is that the candidate must be competent to perform the rotations in both directions prior to the test.
Hover height must be consistent throughout the manoeuvre with minimum wandering away from the TOLP. All landings must be within the 2 metre diameter circle centred on the TOLP.
Note that no times are stated between each 90 degree rotation and the subsequent landing. This will depend on the skill level of the pilot and may range from a descending 90 degree corkscrew turn, landing in the appropriate orientation, to a pilot who wishes to stabilise the model in it’s new orientation before making a conventional descent and landing. All are acceptable as long as the 90 degree change in orientation of the model is reasonably accurate and the landing is acceptably gentle and on the TOLP.

There are also a few minor changes to both the A and B guidelines, mainly involoving removing references to wind direction and quantifying hovering times etc. Hopefully the new guidelines booklest will be available to download fairly soon.

[barney]

I think the BMFA has just dug themselves a great big hole with that one.

Nothing wrong with testing for orientation skills, but the choice of manouvre is a dangerious one for doing it.

Max danger is when the Heli is at the closest position to you..i.e. landing Pad...The most dangerious time is T/O and Landing. Combining the two in close proximity is even dafter. Add in side/X winds, less than perfect Gyro/tail system, uneven Ground and and a incompetent or presurised Pilot.

Its a recipe for disaster and someone will get hurt.

The BMFA powers that be are absolutely barking

[andylinney]

who actually comes up with this stuff?

In the SAA (scottish) equivalent, there's a nose in hover and a pair of opposite circles. None of that up - down nonsense...

[simm0]

with repsect to everyone on here because this is a good conversation
firstly
i was watcing curtis and scott grey in the f3c/fia competitions and they were hovered really close to (what i would call)the pit area..i wont allow this at our club field under any circumstances.whats that about
thanks craig simmons[ame]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cS6X97--tkA[/ame]
to me the first part of this video is really dangerous and breaks all the rules

[pchristy]

For the record, the AHA strongly opposed these changes - as they did when the "M" was removed - but have no official voice at either Areas Council (where the decision was taken) or at the Achievement Scheme Review Committee. Indeed the ASRC have made it abundantly clear that they have no interest in the AHA's position regarding the "B" certificate (though strangely, they DO want the AHA's input for the "C" certificate, which doesn't affect the AHA at all!).

Amongst the voting members of Areas Council, I believe there are only four helicopter pilots, and only 3 heli "B" cert holders.

I am informed that the AHA intend to take this further.....

--
Pete

[Disc]

with repsect to everyone on here because this is a good conversation
firstly
i was watcing curtis and scott grey in the f3c/fia competitions and they were hovered really close to (what i would call)the pit area..i wont allow this at our club field under any circumstances.whats that about
thanks craig simmons

to me the first part of this video is really dangerous and breaks all the rules

They have a starting area for the heli, they then walk the heli out in a hover to the main flight line... Now at a club I could see this as a bad move because there might be a pilot already in the pilots box and you walk/hover a heli to that area its not a good mix... and I'd agree with you breaks a few rules.

For comps though the FAI ones I do belive you have to start there machines in a start box then walk it out to the main flight area I belive.

could be wrong though

[Big A]

I think the BMFA has just dug themselves a great big hole with that one.

Nothing wrong with testing for orientation skills, but the choice of manouvre is a dangerious one for doing it.

Max danger is when the Heli is at the closest position to you..i.e. landing Pad...The most dangerious time is T/O and Landing. Combining the two in close proximity is even dafter. Add in side/X winds, less than perfect Gyro/tail system, uneven Ground and and a incompetent or presurised Pilot.

Its a recipe for disaster and someone will get hurt.

The BMFA powers that be are absolutely barking

I have just checked the draft copies of the B cert guidelines, the take of and landing point (TOLP) is a minimum of 5 metres from the pilot but can be further out. On the manouver it replaces you are taking off and landing while looking over your shoulder from the same distance so I cannot see how it is any more dangerous than the pilot pirouette.

[Disc]

intresting move to chuck in as we already do a nose in hover but now you need to do a nose in landing and take off....

going to make it very intresting

[barney]

Hi Andy..for our Silver 'B' we still fly the M for good reason. We also expect the candidate at this level to decide what is/is't within his capabilities with respect to weather conditions.

He/She afterall is going to have to make these decisions themselves when we cut them loose.

The side on lift off/landing are in the Circles T/O and decent. Nose in orientation is adequately covered in the Nose in Hover as 20 secs is long enough to establish that skill. We do allow the Pilot to rotate the model for landing after completeing the nose in hover.

To increase the distance (for Safety) we no longer force a candidate to Stand on the rear baseline as in years gone by, but adopt a position approx 2M back. For the 'M' I consider this essential since the SAA version is in essence an inverted M or W with straight legs. That means the diagionials are from the back 1/4's to the centre which potentially takes the model within 2.5M. (Having a 90 Howling away just a few feet is very intimadating and not very clever IMHO but it does concentrate the mind..)

Why we never reversed this I dont know but the extra 2M helps from the baseline helps..The 'M' is a very good test of someones flying abilities.

The Top Hat also confirms side on confidence keeping the model out along the back line.

When we examine we are required to take everything into consideration not purely Flying ability. The candidates Knowledge, safety awareness, procedures/practices are observed throughout the day.

We also use two Club examiners to test at 'B' Level one who of whom must be from another Club ensuring fairness..

A test does not have to be over complicated or technicial to test a pilots abilities. Any examiner will tell you that.

The examiner knows exactly whats involved and should they be asked are expected to demonstrate the Manouvre with the Candidates model at any time if any doubt is expressed about the models capability.

Our Job is not to fail folk but assist them achieve the required Safety level.

Sometimes big organisations lose sight of exactly what they are trying to achieve...etc etc

And I'm not even a member of the BMFA...LOL