The A Certificate

[rapporman]

Hi fellow addicts.

I am thinking of taking the A certificate test when I feel I am proficient enough and although I am aware of the test manoeuvres, I have no idea how good you have to be. ie how steady must you be during flight and how much fluctuation in flight path and height levels is allowable, especially if there is any sort of breeze at the time. Does anyone know of any free online videos of fliers in the process of taking the test, so I could get some idea of how good you have to be and what the examiners are looking for.

[G-DAVE]

The A cert is designed to see if the candidate can hover a heli over a given spot at eye level and keeping the model pointing in one direction for about 15 secs.
The other manovers are just to see if the candidate can move the model in a controlled manor in a desired direction and return it into a stable hover over the original postion.
I examined a club member today in a fairly stiff breeze therefore allowances were made for that -- examiners are fliers to and we understand the effects of wind.
I personally can see very quickly when a candidate has got the control required and attatch as much if not more importance to the way the candidate conducts his preflight checks showing a well practiced start-up proceedure.

Why not have a go you will either pass or find out exactly what is required and be all the wiser on your subsequent attempts.
Dave

[rapporman]

The A Certificate

Thanks Dave. I appreciate what you are saying but before I took the test, I would really like some idea if my flying is anywhere near what is required. As a relative newbie ( I have been flying for 9 months ), I find it near impossible to maintain a level flight path throughout the manoevres even in a no wind situation and I can't say my forward and side movements are perfect either. However, if I had something to go on such a video or cd showing a test in progress whether ending in a failure or pass, that would be most helpful and would give me a standard to aim for. If there are no online freebies, I would be willing to pay if you know of any that are available.

Bernie

[mo]

Hi Dave.
Your version of what you are looking for in order to pass the A made very interesting reading for me, I had a go with a very well known heli flier on a bitterly cold day, I achieved far more than you have stated on a model that I had no experience of flying before, and was still failed in his opinion on lack of control.
When I flew my own helicopter, I gave him a display of flying including a nose on hover that ended with a nose on landing at his feet, although he then said I was well in advance of the A certificate, he was still unsympathetic to the fact that I could not feel my fingers due to the cold weather, and to say this made for very uncomfortable flying on that day was an understatement.
I have a witness to what I have just told you, and although at one time he said that when I flew past his nose he felt uncomfortable, he told me he was confident that I had control.
What I have just told you flies in the face of your own version of this test, and for my own part, I can only assume that it it up to the common sense and fairness of the examiner if you are to pass this test or not.
When I came home that day I made up my mind to say STUFF this test, for it is open to all manner of abuses, and I will now continue fly in my own SAFE fashion, for if anyone knows that the control of a model is %100, I am sure that person is yours truly, and if I had the slightest of doubts on this issue, I would not attempt to fly what could be a danger to others in the wrong hands.
GOOD FLYING.
Mo.

[Smoothound]

Mo, I agree entirely.

When I first started, I looked at joining a club but the local one was "full" as far as novices were concerned and unless you had your A cert you couldn't join because no one was available or prepared to watch you and you were not allowed to fly on your own.

So I found a small bit of land and taught myself up to my current standard which is certainly not advanced at all but I can maintain a hover in most positions, nose in is not good but I'll get there, I can put the heli where I want it to be and I've been known to do the odd flip when I've had my bicycle clips with me.

I now have a major dislike for "organised" clubs because the few I've had dealings with since are similar to above. I do need to learn some stuff but I'll use people I've met on here or elsewhere for that rather than any organised club, with the possible exception of Ade Law who I've had chats with and if his site/club were a bit closer might be tempted to go look over :lol:

[XH558]

I now have a major dislike for "organised" clubs because the few I've had dealings with since are similar to above. I do need to learn some stuff but I'll use people I've met on here or elsewhere for that rather than any organised club, with the possible exception of Ade Law who I've had chats with and if his site/club were a bit closer might be tempted to go look over :lol:

Here here - and HERE HERE again 8)
My own experiences with clubs have been with anal retentive jobsworths who are the so called 'seniors' in the club and everyone is frightened of them and runs rings round them as they have the 'clout'.
Also I don't like people looking over my shoulder and sucking in breath and tutting without telling me what they've seen. The last time that happened was an old guy ( a so called club 'elder' ) who spotted that I use the 2 screw electrical connectors with the plastic outer removed to join 2 bits of pushrod together in the radio bay of a plank - that way if the pushrod length needs changing you undo the screws, make the adjustment and do them up again - simple .............aaahhhh but what if the screws come undone - or what if you forget to tighten them - or what if the sky falls in :lol: :lol:
Sorry - it works for me - has never caused a problem and I like it - so stuff your club :P :lol: You use threaded clevises or zig zag bends if you like - I just think they are a pain in the arse. :roll:

What I could do with - however - is one like minded person to stand next to me - now THAT gives me confidence - and its the one thing I miss - but I'll cope :P

[Janek]

[quote="mo"]"When I flew my own helicopter, I gave him a display of flying including a nose on hover that ended with a nose on landing at his feet" & "when I flew past his nose he felt uncomfortable"


Mo, maybe you're problem was your over confidence. It doesn't matter one hoot how good a pilot your are, it only takes one small insignificant problem to turn a perfectly "in control" heli, into a leathal circular saw ! Maybe you were generally flying too close for comfort ?

However, the examiner SHOULD have given you the exact reasons for failing you. . . . . . and that sounds like HIS biggest mistake. Was be a commercial examiner ?

[mo]

Hi Janek.

You are absolutally right, but this was done intentionally after he had told me he was not satisfied with my precision on the hovers, he continually interfered with my flying, by giving instructions, and via the buddy lead, and the model I flew was set up completely different to my own machine.
I just wish he had given me some consideration for the bad weather at that time, and a tankful of fuel to get accustomed to that strange heli before we started in earnest, my own helicopter was set up to fly using 15% of exponential on all controls, the helicopter that I flew had none, so this in itself was a huge hurdle to get over to start with.
Water under the bridge now Janek; but for sure I will not be trying again for a piece of paper that can be won at the descretion of someone who is perhaps himself having a good or bad day, or just lacks common sense.
If after a period of time I have a change of heart, and decide to have another try, I shall be looking up Dave to be my examiner, and will trust that he will be as impartial and fair as he has stated, perhaps then all will be well.
Until that day I will continue to enjoy this sport, and if a person should cast any doubts at our field on my proficiency, or safety in the way that I fly, and also insists on that piece of paper, I will then have to bow to these mandarins of the sport, and find myself a private field like smoothound has done.
GOOD FLYING.
Mo.

[Janek]

Mo, you didn't answer the question on if it was a "commercial" examiner, obviously that answer could give an entirely different "spin" on the possible reason for the failure decision (me being a cynical ba$tard )

[mo]

100% commercial Janek: I hope my answer does not destroy your character.
GOOD FLYING.
Mo.

[Disc]

Hi
wait a sec you did the A on a buddy list and not your own model?

Thats stupid anyway in my opion the Test is meant for you to
demostrate you can do the A without aid and safely fly your
Helicopter through basic moves without aid in way.

The A doesn't require 1inch precsion hovering either. drifting 6ft
would be bad but you should be allowed some drift.

you can goto any club and find there Examineer and ask for an
A Test. you dont have to be a member of Clubs or ASK the BMFA
for Examiner info near you. Also ask the Club if you can do it at
there site if you must there shouldnt be an big issues really.

The thing is plane Examiners can do Heli A's

But the B is diffrent and anyone who has the B can go for the Examiner
if they wish to. I think it has to be 6 months after you take your B
though you can go forward to be an examiner.
B requires a Heli examiner I belive although one can be a
plane examiner. (they have to have 2 examiners unless its the Area
examinner present when you take the B Clubs can request the BMFA
details for another local examiner if the club doesnt have 2)

I hope our Club isnt to political and we try to stay away from it as
much as we can. All we care about is people fly enjoy themselfs and
follow club rules. Our Club does not have very many oldies in it I'd
say 90% of our club is under 40 easy. Plus our oldies are actually
very chilled guys.

But no-one Club will be perfect which is a shame.

[chappers]

No sorry DISC, to be an examiner you have to be proposed by your club and provided your qualifying does not mean exceeding the quota of examiners for your club size ie members, AND you have held a B cert for a minimum of 6 months AND you have the required knowledge and expertise you CAN be tested. You are correct in that any one , whether they are BMFA members or not can request an A or B test.

[Disc]

Hi
I meant for you to take the B theres meant to be 2 Examiners
present the lead examiner should be a Heli Examinner right?.

If you go forward for the Examinner thing then you'd find out the
rest like BMFA stuff ;-)

Our club doesnt demand the A for solo flying or no Heli flyer would
be able to! None of us are good enough for buddy box controls
if we screw up, we screw up no bail out. I am not good enough to
save a Heli nor is anyone esle.

[chappers]

yeah, but using 2 club examiners should only be done if chief examiner is not available, which nowadays with the current system in place should never occour.

[Disc]

I thought you used the club examinners always 1st then area?

Or did they stop that as there was an issue some ttime ago about people
getting B's who were not upto standered? I read it a sometime ago
about that. People giving there Mates B's.

Probably still happens in some places.

This stuff is useful to know should I ever get good enough I'd
consider my B ;-)