How much more would you pay?

[Gixxer]

But let's reverse the question. How much support would you be willing to provide to your customers for any extra expenditure? You'd obviously be tied to UK laws, which in and of itself would/should be worth 20% of anyone's money, but how could you guarantee that you won't become the next Fastlad, and f*ck your customers over at the drop of a hat? I'm in no way insinuating that you'd do that, but in the current climate, it's a risk factor that a lot of people will be taking into account. Nobody thought Fastlad would f*uck them over, but they did, so sometimes it might be better to buy from a massive company in China, despite the knowledge that warranty might be a term they don't understand.
It's better to receive an item with no warranty than not receive the item at all.
And I reiterate, I'm in no way suggesting that would happen, but once bitten...

[Grumpy]

How much support would you be willing to provide to your customers for any extra expenditure?

Buy something from the website and find out The 'extra expenditure' all goes to the government in the form of VAT so best ask Boris what good comes of it

[PeteStewardson]

But let's reverse the question. How much support would you be willing to provide to your customers for any extra expenditure? You'd obviously be tied to UK laws, which in and of itself would/should be worth 20% of anyone's money, but how could you guarantee that you won't become the next Fastlad, and f*ck your customers over at the drop of a hat? I'm in no way insinuating that you'd do that, but in the current climate, it's a risk factor that a lot of people will be taking into account. Nobody thought Fastlad would f*uck them over, but they did, so sometimes it might be better to buy from a massive company in China, despite the knowledge that warranty might be a term they don't understand.
It's better to receive an item with no warranty than not receive the item at all.
And I reiterate, I'm in no way suggesting that would happen, but once bitten...

There is also the fact that you can buy from a big Chinese company, have no warranty, but they tend not to bother fighting a PayPal claim if you get into issues. So although you have no warranty you can often get a refund if it goes wrong. So the risk isn't that great, it's that you have to wait for everything for a lot longer.

Personally I will support a UK company where I sensibly can, but the likes of FastLad going the way it did does leave you wondering if paying extra is worth it at times.

[PeteStewardson]

Buy something from the website and find out The 'extra expenditure' all goes to the government in the form of VAT so best ask Boris what good comes of it

Interesting way to put it. If you weren't making something out of it you wouldn't be bothering. So it's not quite true all the extra expenditure can be going to the government.

Certainly one thing that I don't do now, since fastlads, is consider paying on a pre-order, or buying any kind of gift voucher. I have a pre-order with Midlands right now for a Logo 200. And if I'm honest the reason it's with them and not AT is because I didn't have to pay a deposit. I buy things that are in stock from someone I can use my CC or PayPal with to protect myself. Sadly that's the way it is, I don't consider the support so much these days.

[Grumpy]

Interesting way to put it. If you weren't making something out of it you wouldn't be bothering. So it's not quite true all the extra expenditure can be going to the government.

Certainly one thing that I don't do now, since fastlads, is consider paying on a pre-order, or buying any kind of gift voucher. I have a pre-order with Midlands right now for a Logo 200. And if I'm honest the reason it's with them and not AT is because I didn't have to pay a deposit. I buy things that are in stock from someone I can use my CC or PayPal with to protect myself. Sadly that's the way it is, I don't consider the support so much these days.

The 'extra' (over and above what Banggood charge) is VAT. That goes to the government. Obviously there is also some profit built in there for both UK companies and for Banggood, no one does this on a charitable basis. For me I'm not trying to make a living out of it, it's really just part of the hobby for me and something to get my son involved with as he was as something of a 'loose end'. If I could get to break even that would be nice, some way to go to get to that point though.

I'd never be in the business of taking 'pre-order deposits' (even more so with no final price and no firm availability date like some shops do). I wont do it myself, so it would be hypocrisy to ask others to do it with my shop. The fact that I dont take money for anything i havent got in stock to ship out the same or the next day should be of some assurance i hope.

[PeteStewardson]

For me I'm not trying to make a living out of it, it's really just part of the hobby for me and something to get my son involved with as he was as something of a 'loose end'. If I could get to break even that would be nice, some way to go to get to that point though.

Doing things on that basis, I think you may struggle to justify why people are paying the extra. Importing them as a business you'll have to pay duty which is probably a couple of percent, then VAT. So you'll be upwards of 22% more expensive, and you're not profitable so could stop and disappear at any moment as it's just a hobby for you.

When you look at it like that why would anyone want to pay upwards of 22% more for something. And I can only think of one reason and that would be if you had stock and could deliver next day. SO I'd say you'll only be able to make this work by having plenty of stock in all the time, helis and parts. As soon as you end up out of stock you've lost the only advantage and end up just looking like extra money for nothing.

Don't take this the wrong way, I genuinely back anyone wanting to run their own business. But having been around a lot of different industries as hobbies from both sides, I know that the sort of 'business' you are describing only actually benefits one group of people. Those people are the ones that are 'sponsored' buy the little business getting cheaper kit to promote the company. The person running it thinks they're benefitting but in many many ways they are losing. And the general customer ends up later with no support.

[debrooker]

Don't forget you have corporation tax if your profitable, so your margin would be squeezed further.

My gut feeling is that the money to be made is in replacement parts rather than the heli itself - that would be a massive ball ache having to wait for a part from China.

[Grumpy]

When you look at it like that why would anyone want to pay upwards of 22% more for something. And I can only think of one reason and that would be if you had stock and could deliver next day. SO I'd say you'll only be able to make this work by having plenty of stock in all the time, helis and parts. As soon as you end up out of stock you've lost the only advantage and end up just looking like extra money for nothing.

I've done the sums and I'm confident that I'll be less than 20% over the Banggood price. Having a small business with zero overheads and no ambition to make big profits has it's advantages to the customer. I'm not expecting anyone to make a big leap of faith here, I'll only sell goods that are in stock, so no risk to the buyer (Pay with Paypal if you are worried that I'll do an overnight 'runner'). What you gain for paying 15-20% more than the BG (excluding VAT) price is:

• Quick uk delivery (no 3-4 week wait)
• No risk of UK customs charges and handling fees
• Spares with quick delivery
• Someone to deal with that understands the product he's selling and can give technical support/advice rather than trying to communicate with a 'clueless customer service rep'.
• Warranty

Clearly i need to keep stuff in stock, that goes without saying. I appreciate that some of these points require the business to still be around in the future, not much i can do to assure on that point other than stating I've no intentions of packing it up. If all else fails you still gain from the first two points.

[trillian]

If you run a small business venture that is essentially a hobby and has profits below a certain threshold, (currently £1000.00 I think), you don't even have to report it.

Don't forget you have corporation tax if your profitable, so your margin would be squeezed further.

My gut feeling is that the money to be made is in replacement parts rather than the heli itself - that would be a massive ball ache having to wait for a part from China.

[debrooker]

If you run a small business venture that is essentially a hobby and has profits below a certain threshold, (currently £1000.00 I think), you don't even have to report it.

I should have been a bit clearer, as this applies to Ltd companies and not sole traders

[Grumpy]

So I pushed the button.

First shipment of the M2 'Explore' version left China today, should be with me next week. Introductory price for this model will be £244.50 all in, including UK shipping. That's only £10 more than the Banggood price which has no VAT, so I think it's a bargain. if i can maintain that price remains to be seen, depends largely if i can shift enough volume to get the best price from OMPHobby.

I havent got final price in yet for the '2020' version but I'll use the same sharp pencil when i do the pricing on that one. OMPHobby advise me that the 2020 will be ready to ship next week.

I havent put them on the ScotiaRC.co.uk website yet but I'm working on it. At this price they should go pretty quick so if you want to put your name down for '1st refusal' drop me a message from the ScotiaRC website contact page.

[The Tok'ra]

So I pushed the button.

First shipment of the M2 'Explore' version left China today, should be with me next week. Introductory price for this model will be £244.50 all in, including UK shipping. That's only £10 more than the Banggood price which has no VAT, so I think it's a bargain. if i can maintain that price remains to be seen, depends largely if i can shift enough volume to get the best price from OMPHobby.

I havent got final price in yet for the '2020' version but I'll use the same sharp pencil when i do the pricing on that one. OMPHobby advise me that the 2020 will be ready to ship next week.

I havent put them on the ScotiaRC.co.uk website yet but I'm working on it. At this price they should go pretty quick so if you want to put your name down for '1st refusal' drop me a message from the ScotiaRC website contact page.

I'm just curious as I may be order the Explore version. With the servo casings on this version being plastic, there is of course a chance of breaking a mounting lug in a crash. Any idea what replacement servos will cost, both the plasic cased ones, and the metal case ones?

Thanks!!

[Grumpy]

EXP plastic body servo= £17
2020 metal body servo = £37
gear set (common for both) = £10

[The Tok'ra]

EXP plastic body servo= £17
2020 metal body servo = £37
gear set (common for both) = £10

Thanks for the quick reply!! That's not at all bad for the plastic ones, but the metal case ones are a wee bit pricey IMO. Will need to pop over to RCG, see what I can find out about the plastic swashplate i.e. is it stiff enough....

[Grumpy]

For a little heli I’m sure the plastic will be fine but the metal swash is only £18

Cant argue on the servo prices, but the metal cases will be indestructible so you could always buy a plastic servo and swap the internals if push came to shove