Coming Back to the hobby with Vbar questions

[StreetDragster]

Morning all,

I’m looking to make a comeback to the hobby after a lengthy break, nothing too major, just a single electric 550 or 700 sized machine depending on which model club I get into because one of them has high wind frequently which would probably suit a 700 better. Maybe a Trex 550 or something like a Rave Ballistic which I used to have, although a smaller machine would suit me better overall, anyway I digress.

I have some questions about Mikado electronics.

When I was last into the hobby, Mikado Vbar Blueline was all the rage, and there was just the mini and the full size to purchase, and if you wanted to you could use Spektrum RX satellites with the Vbar’s to reduce on-board electronics and wiring. Now, I’m all for reducing on-board electronics, I hate untidy wiring, the simpler the better for me, even if it costs more.
With the Blueline you could mount the full size one on the side or in some inaccessible place, and then just align and mount the gyro in the right place.
With this in mind, I’d probably go with the Mikado transmitter this time, to gain all the Vbar controls direct from the handset without app’s or laptops.

Onto my questions, which I hope you can help me with-

1) Aside from the touch display, what are the practical differences between the Vbar Control, and the Vbar Control Touch transmitters?

2) I understand that the Vbar NEO is the new generation of Vbar, but what is Vlink?

3) Am I correct in my understanding that even if you get the Vbar Neo with the external gyro, there is also an internal one, so the main unit needs to be mounted horizontal and aligned with the heli anyway, as you do with external gyros? Negating the need to go with the separate gyro version in all except the most vibrating heli’s.

4) What is the Vbar satellite got to do with it? I see you can add antennas to some products but not others, I’m so confused.

5) If I want a Vbar Neo, with built in receiver, to talk to a Mikado Vbar transmitter, with electric governor and bank switching, what Vbar do I need?
Is it a Mikado Vbar Neo VLink 6.1 Express like this -
https://www.modelhelicopters.co.uk/e...1-express.html

6) Assuming I’m correct above, my total electronics on board would be the 4 servos, the ESC, and the Vbar neo, and that’s it? No satellites, no Bluetooth modules, etc?

7) Is there any telemetry worth having? Is see you can get heat sensors and such like, but other than input voltage and head rpm and I can’t think of anything else I would need.

8) Is the Cellpro PL6/PL8 still the parallel charger of choice?

Thanks in advance

Matt

[bigpops]

1) Almost no difference. The touch can completely replace a PC, meaning that it can update itself and Neo devices with just a wifi connection to your mobile phone with a 3g/4g data connection. The older Vbar control needs a PC to update firmware, and same for the Neo.

2) VLink is the radio interface for Vbar controllers. None VLink devices, such as Neos and older V bars - mini / blueline / silverline - can have a satellite added for them to work with Vbar control.

3) That's correct. You don't often see the external gyro (which is just the silverline sensor) being used.

4) See number 2. Its original purpose was to add Vbar control support to the old mini, blueline and silverline vbars.

5) If buying new, then the Vbar Neo Vlink, with the supplied "Express" firmware will do all you ask. Or, a legacy Vbar, such as a silverline (which are about £80 - £100 second hand) and a Vbar satellite will also do everything you require.

6) Yes.

7) I like the telemetry. I have current sensing on all my big helicopters. On one, vbar telemetry is built into the ESC (Scorpion Tribunus), the others, I have the Mikado UI sensor installed on the ESCs input leads. It means I don't need to run a timer. I plug in a battery, tell the radio which it is when it asks (as they're different capacities), and it tells me when I reach the capacity limit, so I don't over discharge. It will also tell you if you plug in a pack that isn't fully charged.
Most ESCs these days have RPM out put, and if they don't, it's about £4 for a Hobbywing RPM sensor that will work with any ESC.

8) Yes. Powerlabs and iChargers are top tier. ISDT are also very good and a chunk cheaper than those two.


With regard to the Vbar Neo:
It's been built in a very specific way. None Vlink Neos (except old V1 Neos) can be upgraded to Vlink Neos by buying the conversion pack (antennas and a case), and buying a firmware upgrade. The cost of doing that is designed to be the same as if you'd bought the Vlink Neo in the first place.

In fact, you can buy a Neo VBasic receiver, and upgrade the firmware to Express or Pro rescue firmware, and the total cost will be about the same as if you'd bought it ready done. This is useful if the model you're after is out of stock.

[StreetDragster]

Brilliant, thanks very much for that, much clearer waters now

Matt

[Grumpy]

FWIW.. not trying to put you off the Vcontrol setup.. But for info; there are other options that still give you full integration with your transmitter (eg MSH Brain, Spirit, BD Axon) so you can do all your FBL adjustments in the field without laptops etc..

Of course the Vcontrol setup being a single brand solution does integrate more seamlessly.

[Ade_Law]

marginally not on topic but you will also want to check out AccuRC Simulator (shameless self promotion, i work for them) its only £40 and arguably (according to our users) the most realistic sim out there right now, the vcontrol plugs straight into the pc over usb, no dongles required.

www.accurc.com

Ade

[StreetDragster]

Cheers guys. I was familar with Vbar so wanted to stick with what i know (or knew!) to soften the re-learning curve, but i'll look into other models.
With regards to simulators, i had a Phoenix back in the day, didn't get on with it, found no benefit from it and just flew 'proper' stuff to learn, not sure i'm going to bother with a simulator this time round, for the same reasons. Would consider a 'bailout' FBL controller though for 'those' moments.

Next questions-

1) Given FBL now and electronic stabilisation etc, if i'm flying in a site with fairly decent winds most of the time, is it still 'bigger is better' so would a 550 FBL model be just as good as a 700 sized one?
Ideally, i'd like to avoid going larger than 7S, and try and keep the heli itself as small as possible, last time i struggled getting some of the bigger stuff in the [saloon] car.


2) Sizes used to be simple, 450, 500, 550, 600, 700, 800. I see now there is all sorts of shortened, and stretched combinations, 380, 570, 630 etc. What are the benefits of a stretched heli over a standard heli. More control, stable, looks better etc?

3) I'd be looking for an Align 550 DFC/Dominator or at a push a 550sized Goblin or a Logo. What sort of prices would you expect to pay for a used airframe? Any other 550 sized machines worth considering? Parts supply being a major factor, cost, less so.

4) Server power supply hotwiring used to be the common mode of powering the chargers, is this still the case or are there better, cost effective purpose built units now?

Thanks in advance

Matt

[Grumpy]

Heli sizing is confusing especially at smaller sizes mainly because some brands use the ‘old school’ class size (300, 400, 450 etc) where many have now gone to a more sensible sizing by rotor blade length. This leads to a few ‘anomalies’ for instance the Goblin 380 is bigger than a 450 and the same rotor size (though physically still bigger) as a Trex 470. The Goblin 420 is in fact the same rotor size as an old school Trex 500 (420mm blades), but most 500s are bigger as they take actual 500mm blades.
550 and up is more consistent, these days they are all based on rotor blade size.

most of these helis aren’t ‘stretched’ from smaller ones, they are in the main all new designs.

Yes, bigger still does fly better, especially in the wind.