Flying inverted?

[cjm180]

Hey

Not that i am anywhere near this, but can any one put in table form, whats what when you are inverted, say tail in?

I know collective is the opporsite .

Down on TX is up on heli, Up on TX is down on heli

Kr
Craig

[waveydavey]

I used a visualisation, imagine your thumbnail on the cyclic stick (mode 2) as the dark bit on the canopy. No matter whether upside down or upright the the heli will roll or pitch as your thumb does.


Nicked from HF and another on here at the bottom

Below are 4 images of 8 stick positions (for mode 2 only and in idle-up of course) for upright and inverted flight orientations with the heli always in front of you and flying directly away from you. The images roughly illustrate where your sticks should be to navigate the turn. You will have to ease the the sticks into and out of position for a smooth turn. Don't forget, if your altitude starts to drop while turning (usually from using aileron), apply a little more collective to lift the heli. Use the illustrated positions as a rough guide only!









http://www.rcheliaddict.co.uk/beginn...-circuits.html

[Grumpy]

Collective is opposite (obviously) and rudder also appears opposite. When inverted tail in, moving the stick left makes the tail go left and vice versa.

For pitch if you think of it as 'back stick moves to nose toward the disk' and 'forward stick moves the nose away from the disk' then it works in any orientation.

[Planehazza]

I remember when learning those orientations, I cheated a bit. I was pretty confident nose in but wasn't perfect. I tried inverted nose in and ending up finding that easier than upright nose in. I still do!

[waveydavey]

I remember when learning those orientations, I cheated a bit. I was pretty confident nose in but wasn't perfect. I tried inverted nose in and ending up finding that easier than upright nose in. I still do!

Me too for some odd reason

[Pj1969]

i find i crash alot doing all that lol

[myxiplx]

It's something that really you just have to practice. It feels very, very odd when you start, and I definitely recommend starting on the simulator as you'll be out of control more often than not to begin with.

I found that starting from a nose in hover, and flipping backwards away from myself into tail in inverted was the easiest way to start. To begin with, don't worry about rudder, just try to keep it in a hover. Forwards and backwards on will stay the same, but left / right will reverse and it'll be confusing for a good while.

Just keep at it, eventually your brain works it out.

And then you have to go back and re-learn upright hovering lol

[Rich_H]

I remember when learning those orientations, I cheated a bit. I was pretty confident nose in but wasn't perfect. I tried inverted nose in and ending up finding that easier than upright nose in. I still do!

me too! I really don't like nose in upright, have a bit of a fobia going on..lol

[Thor]

It's something that really you just have to practice. It feels very, very odd when you start, and I definitely recommend starting on the simulator as you'll be out of control more often than not to begin with.

I absolutely agree. If you start to work seriously on this on the sim, one orientation at a time, I think you will find that it starts to come naturally quicker than you can memorize a full table of "which inputs is reversed in which orientation". Also, your memory recall will never be fast enough to react to the heli anyway.

Assuming you are proficient at upright tail-in hovering, a good place to start might be inverted nose-in. Compared to upright tail-in, forward and aft cyclic are unchanged, but left and right aileron are swapped. As others have said, ignore rudder completely to begin with. So pitch and aileron are the only two inputs that will be cognitively demanding. Just give it time (a lot probably) and start with the sim slowed down to 50% to give yourself time to think and correct. Gradually increase sim speed as you become proficient.


A really great practice approach is described here: From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months - HeliFreak. Using this method of progression is the single most productive thing that I have done for my own flying. It has taken me a little more than 6 months (nearly 2 years and hundreds of hours on the sim ), but I am now nearly proficient in all 8s and funnels and I'm also working on ½ piro flips, autorotations, and more following the same basic approach.

[gazmk2]

I learnt all inverted flight on the sim first including hovering. Got it to the point where I was comfortable and then went out and tried it for real. I actually find forward inverted really easy, sticks in for left and sticks out for right!

[cjm180]

Thanks everyone,

i am proficient at tail in hovering, no issues there, i can do nose in hovering, although i cant react quite as fast here than in tail in hovering. lazy 8's good and did my first stall turn the other day!

I was just sat here thinking whats what in inverted! Good tip trying nose in inverted first. As always all new things will be done to death on the sim!

Nose to disk, umm, not heard that before, sounds easy enough to remember!

I have read some people first do loops, then try and hold it at the top?

Kr
Craig

[cycled]

My recommendations:

- practice hovering nose in, side on
- practice slow pirouette hovering and slow controlled travel
- do lots of flips and rolls; practice centering the collective while turning
- briefly pause inverted as and when you are comfortable
- lots of inverted hovering, inverted piros...

Oh, and if you haven't got some kind of rescue/self-level switch, get one. I like Spirit flybarless but there are lots of options now. You don't need a sim really when you have rescue...

[Peteski]

I just learned to fly inverted by trial and error on the sim. Not one of those visualisation tricks did anything useful for me. You just have to practice and practice until all the stick movements become automatic and you are not consciously thinking about them. For me that took the best part of a whole year to learn all upright and inverted orientations and flight directions. I didn't attempt inverted flight until all my upright orientations were automatic, then I started with simple elevator flips and loops (to get a feel for negative collective) and then inverted hovering in all orientations (to learn inverted cyclic and rudder). Then moved on to inverted circuits and 8s and finally funnels. I now have all these orientations and flight directions automatic, but some orientations are still weaker than others. I just keep practicing with transitions between various orientations and lots of piro practice on the sim. I always keep a step behind the sim in real life to avoid crashing!

[cjm180]

Ok cool, Thanks, lots of advice there. And actually really good, i have been lacking some direction with my learning! Slow piro's seem a good point to start now!

I have not got self leveling i am afriad. I am running gpro on each of my helis. I will see how its going in the next month or so. As they are now discontinued, i should be looking at others.

The vbar Neo looks good, if not expensive. Seems to be the bench mark. I am looking in the future to get a 3 bladed goblin, so something in my fleet will be sold for that. So then i would look to keep the neo and put it on the new heli.

Kr
Craig

[Peteski]

Just take it 1 step at a time and don't skimp on learning the basics thoroughly. If you can slow piro hover on the spot both upright and inverted then you are well on your way. Some people seem to take shortcuts and start learning specific moves while not knowing all their basic orientations first, which inevitably leads to a lot of crashing as they are unable to recover properly from any mistakes. At your stage I wouldn't even think about inverted flight yet. I would keep working hard on your upright orientations and rudder control. Once you can just fly around upright at will without really thinking about the stick movements, that's when you are ready to try inverted.