Castle Talon 35 sometimes motor not spooling up after initialisation?

[tomatwalden]

Yesterday at the field I couldn't get my CC120HV to arm and power up. I got the beeps, but it just wouldn't arm.

Looked at it this morning, and the extension cable for the throttle had come loose. So the ESC gave its initial beeps as it saw the power from the LIPOs, but the throttle signal was not getting through.

Could it be something similar? Maybe a chafed throttle cable giving intermittent behaviour? Loose connection to the FBL unit? etc. Worth a check maybe.

[Peteski]

Yesterday at the field I couldn't get my CC120HV to arm and power up. I got the beeps, but it just wouldn't arm.

Looked at it this morning, and the extension cable for the throttle had come loose. So the ESC gave its initial beeps as it saw the power from the LIPOs, but the throttle signal was not getting through.

Could it be something similar? Maybe a chafed throttle cable giving intermittent behaviour? Loose connection to the FBL unit? etc. Worth a check maybe.

I'll definitely check the wiring again, but in my case I think the esc is arming, with the warning beep every 10 sec as normal. Just no hint of any actual power. Actually I'm just wondering now if the 10 sec beeps do confirm that it is actually armed or simply that the esc is connected to the battery? I know you should get the arming tune when it first sees zero throttle, but I wouldn't have noticed if that tune was missing when it failed to spool. I could bench test that with a non-zero throttle and see what tones I get from the esc in that state i.e. powered up but not armed.

Update: I just bench tested and can confirm that when powered up with a non-zero throttle I don't get the 10 sec beeps, just the initial power up tune and then silence. When I then input zero throttle via TH I get the arming tune followed by the 10 sec warning beeps. So I can definitely confirm now that it was armed when I had this problem as I was getting the 10 sec beeps even though there was no actual power to spool. I have been unable to re-create the fault on the bench either, although I've only tried it a handful of times.

[Peteski]

I wonder if it's a problem with the motor. When the esc arms it should send a signal to the motor and get a response back for starting position of coils etc.

I would check the motor attachment bolts to make sure that the ends are not touching the wires in the motor. After many flights a bolt end could wear away the enamel on a wire and cause an intermittent earthing issue.

If that is okay, then I would re flow the solder on the 3 motor connecting bullets on the motor and the esc.

Hope you solve it.

Could be a wiring issue, but then it would be strange that it always fails in the same state i.e. on initial power up. I haven't had any hint of a problem in flight or in any other scenario other than initialisation. A power cycle has always cured it first time too without wiggling any wires apart from disconnecting and re-connecting the battery. But I certainly haven't ruled out the possibility that it's not the esc causing the problem. Be interesting to see if Castle have seen this issue before.

[Granpappy]

The 10 second beep only happens when it is fully armed and ready to go. I just checked mine. It's an Ice HV but the tones are the same.

Connect battery and it gives a 1 second rising tone. Then nothing.

Turn on receiver power, and as soon as the FBL has done it's checks and the green light is on, then the esc gives a 1 second rising and falling tone to show it's armed and then the beep every 10 seconds.

Edit: I think that if you had a loose throttle/fbl wire connection then the problem would materialise in flight. Maybe.

[Peteski]

Thanks Granpappy. I just checked mine too on the bench (see my update to previous post) and it behaves exactly like your Ice. So at least I now know that it was armed when I had the fault as I was definitely getting the 10 sec warning beeps, but no power when switching off TH.

[Granpappy]

Could be a wiring issue, but then it would be strange that it always fails in the same state i.e. on initial power up. I haven't had any hint of a problem in flight or in any other scenario other than initialisation. A power cycle has always cured it first time too without wiggling any wires apart from disconnecting and re-connecting the battery. But I certainly haven't ruled out the possibility that it's not the esc causing the problem. Be interesting to see if Castle have seen this issue before.

I think the only difference between a cold power on, and a power re-cycle is that for the latter, the esc capacitors will still be partially charged. As to whether that has anything to do with the price of potatoes, I've no idea.

As you say, it will be interesting to see what Castle say.

[Peteski]

I think the only difference between a cold power on, and a power re-cycle is that for the latter, the esc capacitors will still be partially charged. As to whether that has anything to do with the price of potatoes, I've no idea.

As you say, it will be interesting to see what Castle say.

Funnily enough I was thinking about that too. But the problem has always occurred on the second or maybe third pack, never the first when everything was cold. I do fly my packs back-to-back with very little downtime, so maybe the esc is getting too hot and shutting power off and then cooling down enough to work by the time I've re-cycled the power? But then why did it work fine for the first 180 flights, I'm not doing anything differently and subjectively everything feels cool to the touch?

[Peteski]

Got an email response from Castle today. First thing they suggested was a throttle recalibration in case zero throttle point has drifted, but I don't see how that's going to work given the circumstances? It definitely arms from the TH switch and makes all the right beeping noises, even when it refuses to power up. Surely if it was the failsafe preventing it from powering, there would be no arming beeps.

[Grumpy]

Pete,

You could try just increasing the low throttle end point in your Tx by a couple of %... This will have no negative effect but might be enough to make the ESC consistently see a 'close throttle' input.

[Peteski]

Thanks Grumpy, I was thinking just the same! But I still don't get how it can be giving out the arming beeps and yet no power if it's just a throttle endpoint issue? I've replied to Castle and put that scenario to them.

[Grumpy]

That's true pete, if it's giving the arming beeps then it must bee seeing the throttle closed signal. As long as you are sure that it's the arming beeps you hear and not just the ESC counting the cells?

[Peteski]

I was definitely getting the arming beeps every 10 secs when it last failed. I wasn't sure the first 2 times, but I was very careful to pay attention last time it played up on me. Castle are not helping much at the moment. They're still focusing on the zero throttle and don't seem to get the point that I am getting the armed tones and beeps as normal - but no motor power. If I deliberately don't arm it on the bench - by initialising with a positive throttle - there is no arming tune or beeps and obviously no motor power. As soon as I flick into TH, the zero throttle triggers the arming tune and the 10 sec beeps begin and there is [usually] power when I switch out of TH except for the 3 times it's been dead. I just can't see how it can be a zero throttle issue in this case? It seems far more likely to be a glitch in the esc control as the esc is telling me that it is armed. I doubt it's the motor. It doesn't make any attempt to power up, no buzzing or other electrical or mechanical noises, just totally dead and then works perfectly after a quick power cycle.

[jchbarnes]

It might be worth going back a version on the firmware before reinstalling the current version. I notice there was a similar post on HF a while back Talon 35 Start Fail - HeliFreak. Unfortunately you might be sending it to Castle...