Bail out FBL units dragging me back into the hobby . Maybe!

[Peteski]

Yeah, the Spirit (and Neuron) cant be beaten for price. Some other other FBL units that support Rescue like the Microbeast Plus and the Neo look similarly priced on first inspection but then you find when you read the small print that you need to pay over £70 extra to turn on deliberately disabled features. Seems a bit 'sneaky' to me. The Spirit comes with everything enabled in the purchase price which is how it should be IMHO.

Depends how you look at it. What if Spirit or Neuron offered an even cheaper version of their products without rescue enabled? Not everyone wants to have it, but with those units you are forced to pay for it whether you use it or not. Obviously the whole units, complete with rescue, are cheaper anyway so it's not important, but the way I see it is that Spirit and Neuron are simply cheaper because of their lower overheads and marketing strategy. It will be interesting to see how the bigger players respond in the next few years, but I expect rescue will just become a standard feature on all FBL systems and the costs will continue to fall. I can't imagine Demon are selling many of their rescue units right now, the pricing just looks out of date with the competition.

[Grumpy]

Yes, as you say, that might be a reasonable argument if those 'low cost' hamstrung versions were actually any cheaper than the competitions 'full house' products, but they are not. Before long these features will just be seen as standard, so manufacturers will no longer be able to get away with premium pricing.

What does irritate me is the sneaky way it's done.. You have to look very hard at the small print to find the bit that says rescue is a added cost option, and you have to look even harder to find out what the cost actually is to turn the features on. I still havent been able to find the cost quoted for the 'SAFE' upgrade on the new AR7210BX.. probably buried away in microscopic print in some obscure location that you only get access to once you own the FBL unit. You even have to pay extra for a 'special' USB lead to program them, that's just taking the pi$$ IMHO

It would be interesting to know how many people use these FBL units without paying for the Rescue upgrade... very few i'd guess..

[GIXERMAN]

Yes, as you say, that might be a reasonable argument if those 'low cost' hamstrung versions were actually any cheaper than the competitions 'full house' products, but they are not. Before long these features will just be seen as standard, so manufacturers will no longer be able to get away with premium pricing.

What does irritate me is the sneaky way it's done.. You have to look very hard at the small print to find the bit that says rescue is a added cost option, and you have to look even harder to find out what the cost actually is to turn the features on. I still havent been able to find the cost quoted for the 'SAFE' upgrade on the new AR7210BX.. probably buried away in microscopic print in some obscure location that you only get access to once you own the FBL unit. You even have to say extra for a 'special' USB lead to program them, that's just taking the pi$$ IMHO

It would be interesting to know how many people use these FBL units without paying for the Rescue upgrade... very few i'd guess..

I have 2 Neo without rescue one has pro software, and 13 vbars mixture of full-size and minis and 12 have pro software. in the past i have used 3g,3gx,gpro, beastx, ar7200bx, Brain, helicommand,vortex,futaba, skookum 540, and the mikado still work best for my needs and doesn't bother me to pay for the extras if required, also Rv and mikado back up is second to none by email or on mikado forum. Thats my opinion

[Peteski]

Seems clear enough to me, you don't need to look that hard.

SPMAR7210BX DSMX Flybarless Control System (SPMAR7210BX): Spektrum - The Leader in Spread Spectrum Technology

"Optional SAFE® software and firmware updates can be uploaded with the Spektrum USB programmer (SPMA3030). Both the SAFE software and programmer are sold separately."

Pricing though I agree is not so obvious on the Spektrum version as it's only sold via their download interface. It's clearer with Microbeast since you can buy the pro version with rescue factory installed (£185).

Had it been available when I bought my Microbeast, I would have got the Spektrum version with built in receiver. It would have been a neater installation on my Oxy 3 without the sat and less failure points. But no big deal really.

[Peteski]

I have 2 Neo without rescue one has pro software, and 13 vbars mixture of full-size and minis and 12 have pro software. in the past i have used 3g,3gx,gpro, beastx, ar7200bx, Brain, helicommand,vortex,futaba, skookum 540, and the mikado still work best for my needs and doesn't bother me to pay for the extras if required, also Rv and mikado back up is second to none by email or on mikado forum. Thats my opinion

I was tempted to try Neo, but I was disappointed to find that its rescue doesn't appear to have an "Acro" mode like Spirit or BeastX. For me that makes it more likely to crash at low altitude if it has to flip the heli upright every time. It's much more efficient to just level inverted and climb out. I don't need the heli flipped upright, I can do that myself once rescue is de-activated.

[Grumpy]

For me the Neo is a non starter if not using a Mikado Vcontrol Tx... Due (I assume) to paranoia about cloning, the interface with regular any Tx/Rx is very limited. Apparently you cant even adjust tail gain from the Tx like you can on any other FBL controller on the planet. Then you have all the security/registration hoops to jump through and the previous very useful Vbar Bluetooth interface is gone. For me Mikado threw the baby out with the bathwater when they screwed down on security.

The Neo also does not have 'stabilisation' (self righting) in normal flight like the Spirit or BeastX has the option of... Most experienced flyers wouldn't want it anyway but it's a good feature for beginners.

[Grumpy]

I don't need the heli flipped upright, I can do that myself once rescue is de-activated.

With the latest firmware the Spirit does that automatically apparently. It rescues to nearest orientation then if rescue was inverted after climbing for a second and reaching safe height it flips upright.... I've not tested it but apparently it works as advertised.

[Peteski]

With the latest firmware the Spirit does that automatically apparently. It rescues to nearest orientation then if rescue was inverted after climbing for a second and reaching safe height it flips upright.... I've not tested it but apparently it works as advertised.

Yeah I saw a video of that, pretty neat. But not a feature I need. The "Acro" mode is enough for me. But what would be good, is if you could get it to climb out aggressively for a few seconds (upright or inverted) and then have it automatically reduce collective to near neutral. Not a big deal as I just flick rescue on for a couple of seconds until level and gained enough height then flick it off again and take over. But would be nice if it brought the collective back down by itself first. The next logical step is to have it bring the heli to a stationary hover, but needs GPS active for that. I read that could be a future option on Microbeast since it has an extra port that has been rumoured could take a GPS module. I'd probably go for that option if it was released and not ridiculously expensive.

[Peteski]

For me the Neo is a non starter if not using a Mikado Vcontrol Tx... Due (I assume) to paranoia about cloning, the interface with regular any Tx/Rx is very limited. Apparently you cant even adjust tail gain from the Tx like you can on any other FBL controller on the planet. Then you have all the security/registration hoops to jump through and the previous very useful Vbar Bluetooth interface is gone. For me Mikado threw the baby out with the bathwater when they screwed down on security.

The Neo also does not have 'stabilisation' (self righting) in normal flight like the Spirit or BeastX has the option of... Most experienced flyers wouldn't want it anyway but it's a good feature for beginners.

I didn't realise it was that bad without Vcontrol. Not an option for me then. I'm definitely going to try the Spirit Pro on my next build.

[Grumpy]

But what would be good, is if you could get it to climb out aggressively for a few seconds (upright or inverted) and then have it automatically reduce collective to near neutral.

My understanding is that the Spirit does just that, it adds collective for one second then restores collective control to the stick. Again i havent tested it so i might be mistaken.

[ChrisB]

To answer the OP.

I think the rescue options are amazing.

I cant comment on anything but the Neo with V Control but i have to say it gives you massive confidence to push your flying further,i have had the model screaming toward the ground piroing upside down and hit rescue at under 10 feet and the descent stops almost immediately and the heli flips upright climbing back up as its doing so.it will flip out of a 2foot inverted hover also with ease(although i admit i clench the cheeks when ive demo'd this)

Been in this hobby a long time,been thru more products than i can remember and the Neo with rescue is among the best things i have ever purchased,IMHO you need a V Control to get the best out of it due to the way Mikado operate now but i am cool with that as i have one,

[Granpappy]

I have 2 Neo without rescue one has pro software, and 13 vbars mixture of full-size and minis and 12 have pro software. in the past i have used 3g,3gx,gpro, beastx, ar7200bx, Brain, helicommand,vortex,futaba, skookum 540, and the mikado still work best for my needs and doesn't bother me to pay for the extras if required, also Rv and mikado back up is second to none by email or on mikado forum. Thats my opinion

Joachim from BD has always answered my queries in double quick time. I'm very impressed with their after-sales support.

BD could probably have dropped their prices at any time to bring them in line with other FBL manufacturers, but they haven't because people keep buying them. That is because they are the best feeling FBL controller that you can get if they are set up right. Very subjective and my personal opinion, but if you tune them right then you don't get any better. Tuning them is a black art though but that is what after sales support is all about. I will pay the extra £100 any time.

Someone alluded to 'Elevator Bobbling' earlier: that's tuned out with the elevator filter in the setup.

[Peteski]

My understanding is that the Spirit does just that, it adds collective for one second then restores collective control to the stick. Again i havent tested it so i might be mistaken.

I wouldn't want collective returned to the stick after 1 sec, that could give a nasty surprise if the stick was in the wrong place. I'd want it returned to neutral so I could take my time de-activating rescue without it sky-rocketing.
But no big deal really, I'm happy enough with the standard Acro rescue mode.

[Peteski]

To answer the OP.

I think the rescue options are amazing.

I cant comment on anything but the Neo with V Control but i have to say it gives you massive confidence to push your flying further,i have had the model screaming toward the ground piroing upside down and hit rescue at under 10 feet and the descent stops almost immediately and the heli flips upright climbing back up as its doing so.it will flip out of a 2foot inverted hover also with ease(although i admit i clench the cheeks when ive demo'd this)

Been in this hobby a long time,been thru more products than i can remember and the Neo with rescue is among the best things i have ever purchased,IMHO you need a V Control to get the best out of it due to the way Mikado operate now but i am cool with that as i have one,

It would still be even better if it didn't have to flip the heli during rescue. I don't know why they didn't give the option of "Acro" rescue like the other units do. It's just more efficient. I've tried both modes on my BeastX and while upright recovery is very impressive, acro (3D) recovery is lightning quick when inverted because it has so much less work to do. Or does Neo work more like the new Spirit mode, where it climbs out first and then flips? That would be acceptable too. But trying to flip close to the ground is not for me.

[ChrisB]

It does arrest inverted descent very quickly,it does not climb inverted then flip it climbs while executing the flip,its very very good in practice either way.

I agree in a real balls to the wall situation a recovery to inverted if thats the nearest disc level position would be even more effective,i dont know why Mikado didnt offer this,its surely an easy enough option to allow,maybe they will in the future.

In practice i would try high and bailout early anyway so its not an issue for me but that aside its operation is brilliant.