Blade Helicopters - What happend or am I stupid?

[james_2k]

They both crash crap. As they aren't micros. Blade spares aren't cheap either. (Admittedly my experience of that is the nano cpx) aligns 450l prices are pretty good. But remember the 450x is smaller.

[tomatwalden]

It's just the rrp yes, but it is releasing in a time where you can get the dominator a lot cheaper. They should have adjusted the rrp based on that imo. When the Dom released there weren't as many 360mm helis, and the ones that were there were probably a lot more expensive. Not so with the blade product, what does it bring to the table over the competition? Price? No. Specs? I doubt it. Brand name? No. Hmm

A decent fbl unit.
a talon ESC preprogrammed in gov mode
Proper swash driver
Prebuilt for bnf.
Decent screws ;-)

granted, not all of these are on everyone's wish list, but the 450l isn't for everyone. Given the choice of the 360cfx or the 450l, I'd have the Blade. But then given the choice of 360cfx or an x3, or goblin 380 ... I'd have the goblin! :-)

[james_2k]

A decent fbl unit.
a talon ESC preprogrammed in gov mode
Proper swash driver
Prebuilt for bnf.
Decent screws ;-)

granted, not all of these are on everyone's wish list, but the 450l isn't for everyone. Given the choice of the 360cfx or the 450l, I'd have the Blade. But then given the choice of 360cfx or an x3, or goblin 380 ... I'd have the goblin! :-)

Well

the 3gx or gpro depending on what kit you get are generally considered decent (vocal detractors not withstanding)

Dfc works fine for most people not sure this is a benefit

bnf is a mixed blessing. Especially with larger machines. Was it put together right at the factory.. Do you trust their loctite? After a crash you don't know how it goes together Etc

decent screws is a red herring, I bet the blade ones strip just as easily.

There just isn't (imo) a killer feature for this thing. It's got an uphill battle I reckon.

also Tom, I reckon you are a bit of a blade fan. Nothing at all wrong with that of course, but how many people out there have the larger blades like you do? Not sure that many would go for the blade over the align at all. I certainly wouldn't. ( had align but only a micro blade - a situation I'm sure a lot of new comers are in)

edit 2:

i do do like how your sig lists the 180 and 300 cfx as 'for fun' what are your other ones for? Hehe

[tomatwalden]

I'm not really a Blade fan, but I do sometimes think that it is almost "cool" to criticise Blade. Sure, I have two of the "Pro Series", but for reasons other than any particular loyalty to Horizon Hobby. I also had two Aligns, but sold them on. I bought the 550X because at the time it came out, it was the largest, affordable heli that ran on 6S. At the time, Align's 550 was smaller using 520mm blades and they were moving to DFC - a design I still dislike. The Blade met my requirements. I also waited and paid significantly less than the RRP - getting a deal cheaper than the equivalent Align.

The 700X purchase was spur of the moment at 3D champs. Midland were trying to move stock and I paid £600 for the super-combo. After being egged on by somebody else, I cracked - despite the fact I didn't really want a 700 at the time! I doubt many would argue that £600 for a super combo of a brand new 700 class was a good deal.

After getting both these helis, I know they fly REALLY well and are built solid. The 550X especially. Any loyalty I have to these helis comes from experience of owning and flying them.

The 180cfx and 300cfx are "just for fun" because I really can throw them around without worrying about crashing too much. A crash of either doesn't bother me in the slightest. Any of my larger helis cost serious money to crash, so I'm more careful with them!

But back on topic ... Looking at the 360CFX, I think it's a good heli on paper - at least as good, if not better than others in its class. I truly dislike DFC. I think it's an engineering mistake on Aligns part. They failed to understand the Compass design and came up with something that makes maintenance difficult. It puts extra wear on components and provides little or no flying benefit compared to well designed driver arrangement. Align themselves are now offering an "FL" head on newer helis. As for the 360CFX, the Talon ESC with governor is a good move. The servo geometry is good and all servos are metal gear. The 3GX may suit some, but frankly most people would agree that the AR7200BX is superior.

In short, being objective, I cannot see anything about the 360CFX that doesn't put it technically on a par with say the Gaui X3 or 450L. Out of interest, how much would a complete Gaui X3 cost?

That said, Yes, the RRP is high - but it will either sell at that price, or (far more likely) it will be discounted just like the 450L. So, putting the price argument aside, I think the Blade has the potential to be better than the 450L.

FWIW, if I'm a fan of any helis - it's the Goblins, always have been! But I just think people are overtly dismissive of Blade which sometimes I think is more to do with preconceptions than anything else.

[james_2k]

That's understandable, I feel the same way about align and the 3gx. Seems cool to bash them, but look at the market share.

anyway, regarding the price of the 360, what has happened to the price of the 300 cfx (more naming convention ambiguity)? it's more expensive than the 450l is nowadays (similar price to the gpro version). That's crazy, and shows the fact blade seems happy to let the prices stay up for a while at least. I highly doubt this new machine will compete price wise with the align.

[tomatwalden]

I don't think Blade necessarily dictate the prices in the UK, any more than Align do. Both set the RRP and dealers/demand take it from there. Shops will drop prices to move stock or keep prices high if people are willing to pay.

[james_2k]

Hmm, so we are being ripped off by our hobby shops.. We need rc-hero to get more stock, as Kyle always has the best prices on things, pretty much every time.
Also price for the 300cfx in the us on horizon hobbys site = 400 dollars. Uk = 500 dollars (at the re-hero cheapest price!) We get so screwed over here

[BavarianRob]

Like most new helis, price on release is always a bit higher than we'd like. The 450L was around the £430 mark when it came out if I remember correctly; now it's £275 (with 3GX) similarly the 500L has come down in price by £50 recently and the 180CFX is nearly £40 cheaper than release. That said, blade parts are expensive, I remember costing up parts on my old 130X and I could have got the same parts for a 450 PRO for less!

Blade helis have been essential in my progress don't get me wrong and I've bit the bullet on the repair costs to date, but building my 450L recently made me realise what a step up in quality Align are, they're no Goblin, agreed, but as a middle of the range heli, I'm impressed. Blade just seem too flimsy and plasticy but at a premium price point.

I'll still be getting myself a 180CFX in a few weeks tho ha ha!

[Peteski]

Hmm, so we are being ripped off by our hobby shops..

What? Are you suggesting that competing hobby shops are fixing prices across the country? Presuming not, it's just plain old supply and demand economics.

[mahbouni]

I don't think hobby shops fix prices across the country but at the same time they don't want to get into a price war, which would be a financial loss for all of them.

[Peteski]

Welcome to the free market economy!

But seriously, I doubt most hobby shops are exactly raking it in. I have little experience, but it strikes me as a business for love more than money if you know what I mean. I would imagine it's a tough business to make a decent profit. Could be wrong of course and hobby shop owners are all busy deciding which yacht to buy after ripping us off.

[scallybert]

[...] I truly dislike DFC. I think it's an engineering mistake on Aligns part. They failed to understand the Compass design and came up with something that makes maintenance difficult. It puts extra wear on components and provides little or no flying benefit compared to well designed driver arrangement. Align themselves are now offering an "FL" head on newer helis. [...]

I'm sure we could have a great engineering discussion about the pros & cons of DFC heads - I tended to see them as an abomination - but this thread isn't the place...

However, I reckon that on smaller helis (up to 425mm blades) with reasonably high head speeds & hard dampers; you don't see any drawbacks; and probably get less slop in the phasing.

So, I'm not sure DFC heads should count against helis in this thread.

[tomatwalden]

I'm sure we could have a great engineering discussion about the pros & cons of DFC heads - I tended to see them as an abomination - but this thread isn't the place...

However, I reckon that on smaller helis (up to 425mm blades) with reasonably high head speeds & hard dampers; you don't see any drawbacks; and probably get less slop in the phasing.

So, I'm not sure DFC heads should count against helis in this thread.

To be honest, my beef with DFC on small helis is just how damned fiddly it is. Trying to fix the tracking on my Trex250 was a complete ball-ache, largely because of those blasted DFC pitch links! For small micros, I think the 130x / 180cfx approach with normal pitch links, but with a sort of guide half way down the head acting a swash driver is a really good compromise for small helis - no DFC drawback and no ludicrously small swash driver links. I think even the Gaui X7 takes this approach on a 700-class! Makes me wonder why this approach hasn't caught on!

[bill rob]

" although many would probably swap out the 3GX.",,Tamatwalden said,,and I thought "for a red house brick",,Toms right regarding the align screws,they are made from chocolate compared to the blade ones,,the beast x is a very good fbl unit,,and people who know nothing about helis will still buy blade or second hand align it doesn't matter,,I learned to repair after my first crash,very few people will learn all about it first then buy a kit,most jump in with both feet and try to solve any hurdles they come across,the proof of that is this forum!
Blade deserve a better name than they get,,many heli owners slated the mcpx until they saw one in action,many swore they would never own a Blade heli but they do now.
Also Blade are improving while Align are more or less static.

[james_2k]

What? Are you suggesting that competing hobby shops are fixing prices across the country? Presuming not, it's just plain old supply and demand economics.

Yep and as usual in the U.K. we get ripped.