Piloting Skills for L platers

[Grumpy]

Anth,

Back on the original question on 'mainly' flying with one stick or the other. What makes helis more challenging to learn than fixed wing RC flying is that you have to use both sticks all the time. On fixed wing you can to a large extent just fly around never touching the left stick, many fixed wing flyers do it all the time! With helis you cant get away with that, you have to constantly control the heli all all axis.

The single hardest thing I found when first learning to hover was controlling the collective (left stick up and down). You will find that if there is any wind at all that the heli is constantly wanting to climb or descend, sometimes very quickly. You have to compensate for this by adjusting the collective pitch to try to keep the helis altitude constant. As already noted on a collective pitch heli RPM remains pretty much fixed, you are really only adjusting blade pitch angle.

You also need to adjust rudder to keep the heli pointing in the desired direction. Heading hold gyros are great and do a lot to make this easier, but you still need to make rudder corrections.

It's just a matter of practice, after a whil it clicks and you dont really need to think about it. I dont know of any short-cuts to get to the 'click' point, you just need to practice.

[tomatwalden]

Personally the last thing i'd advise a complete novice to do was to do their first landings by cutting power and 'auto-rotaing' (aka an 'auto') down. While practicing autos is a good thing to do IMHO you should only think about trying an auto when you are already fully profficient at hovering and landing under power.

Autos are tricky, you only get one go at it. Controlling landing is hard because as soon as you add positive pitch the blades start to slow. You have to balance increased pitch against ever decreasing rotor RPM and you have to do it pretty quickly before the rotors slow too much. Get it wrong and the heli literally falls out of the sky. Due to the slow start process power takes a while to come back after you have hit throttle hold, so if you screw up you cant just fly out of it. Of course expert flyers make it look easy, but dont be fooled.

It's your heli so try it if you want but my advice would be to get hovering and 'normal' landing mastered before you even think about trying auto-rotation landing.

Hi there,

I never recommended a throttle hold landing for beginners (they are far from being autos, since there is no actual auto-rotation of the blades in a TH landing) - I said that I personally use them and others land with power. "Whatever suits" was my key phrase! Getting down safely is the main thing!

That said, I use them because personally I have always found them easier. Sure, you need a 450 or above to do them, but once I got over the fear factor of cutting the throttle on my 450X - I found TH landings more "natural" and less scary than putting a heli on the deck with the blades still under power and doing several thousand RPM. But like I say - whatever suits! I think the audience here are mostly on micros anyway which kind of precludes them anyway at this point.

To avoid any confusion with beginners on this thread, an "auto rotation" is just that - the blades are auto-rotated by the effect of air being pushed through them at high speed (as the heli falls) with negative pitch to actually generate head speed. You need a LOT of height for this - eg. maybe 100 foot minimum for a 550. Sure, throttle hold landings are a precursor to this, they are two very different things.

FWIW, I love auto's too! I only learnt them this year (it was my 2014 goal!) and they really are fun!

[Peteski]

I've just realised that I don't have problems landing my other micro helis without them tipping over, although they are only co-axial (mCX2 and Syma 107). As long as I quickly throttle right down from a very low hover (just a couple of inches off the ground) I find that they just drop gently down on the spot and never tip over. But if I try to keep the power on at touchdown they are prone to tipping over when the skids touch. Makes sense really as they weigh next to nothing.

Don't worry I'm not about to kill the power 4 feet off the ground with a 130X! But I might try it a couple of inches off the ground in a stable hover when the time comes. I can't see any problem with that? Should also give some protection against damage if it does go wrong.

[GtD]

I<snip>
... But I might try it a couple of inches off the ground in a stable hover when the time comes. I can't see any problem with that? Should also give some protection against damage if it does go wrong.

I don't own a 130x but a friend does - and I have flown it a few times. Did try a 'mini-auto' from a foot or so and these small helis just fall right down - almost no float from such small/light blades I found!

What my friend does to land is drop down to 'normal' mode which has a lower headspeed - that calms the heli down and makes it a little less twitchy, and he then brings it down and hits hold as soon as it is on the ground.

still - at a few inches it should be fine - and the good thing about hitting throttle hold is even if it does tip then it is unlikely to cause any damage at all (unless you are landing on concrete or some other unforgiving surface!).

J

[AnthD]

Thanks Grumpy ,

yes I see what you mean tiny adjustments are being made constantly on the CP I think I've picked this up a lot faster due to the nature of our Buisness we use a lot of submersible flying equipment where a similar multi tasking is nessesery although in water 1000kg spead can weigh nothing in the water so with no gravity life is easy to an extent open water.

i find it pretty easy to fly toward and back - then land take off do the same , what will have had a negative effect are these little Micro 3 ch Helis over the years there just designed to fly them self so the sim is a whole new world here ! I've been looking at the 500s and there still are a pretty compact Heli , I have to love the Trex 700L I do really fancy one next month but think I'm gonna have to hold myself back here! A also real there's a new Seash plate layout this year on the 500L but this hasn't progressed in to the 550/600/700L due to using up the stock they have at Align but you can buy the upgrade yourself !

Flying question is when your wanting to bank the heli 180d back on your self is the suggested control action say left turn - bank left on the right stick and follow with the rudder OR just all rudder and pitch forward !? Hope this makes sense ..

I find a lot after the 180 the heli needs a lot of foward due to my continued force in the opposite Direction using only rudder so I'm thinking I need to drill Fig8.

thanks again .

[tomatwalden]

I don't own a 130x but a friend does - and I have flown it a few times. Did try a 'mini-auto' from a foot or so and these small helis just fall right down - almost no float from such small/light blades I found!

What my friend does to land is drop down to 'normal' mode which has a lower headspeed - that calms the heli down and makes it a little less twitchy, and he then brings it down and hits hold as soon as it is on the ground.

still - at a few inches it should be fine - and the good thing about hitting throttle hold is even if it does tip then it is unlikely to cause any damage at all (unless you are landing on concrete or some other unforgiving surface!).

J

I used to have a 130X, which had a one-way bearing upgrade. Oddly enough, I did do some testing on TH landings with it ... here's the results

[Peteski]

That seemed to work okay Tom. Does the one way bearing make a big difference in respect to this? I was thinking of hitting TH from a much lower height than in your video to be honest. My Red Bull 130X has the 4 blade head. Again will that make any difference?

Edit: Also sounds quite intimidating for the house, but you obviously know what you are doing. I'm going to make sure I have a clear acre or two around mine when I first try it!

[Peteski]

Flying question is when your wanting to bank the heli 180d back on your self is the suggested control action say left turn - bank left on the right stick and follow with the rudder OR just all rudder and pitch forward !? Hope this makes sense ..

I find a lot after the 180 the heli needs a lot of foward due to my continued force in the opposite Direction using only rudder so I'm thinking I need to drill Fig8.

All rudder and forward pitch sounds like a dirt eating scenario to me. But then I'm only a sim queen, so may have misunderstood what you mean. If you mean a quick 180 deg spin turn (hammerhead I think it may be called) I fly forward at a reasonable speed, pull the nose up quite steeply, rotate 180 deg with the rudder and then pitch the nose up again when facing the new direction to avoid nose-diving straight into the ground. Not sure how you can talk about banked turns without using the cyclic to create a bank angle? If you only use rudder and elevator there is no banked turn

[pgkevet]

Exactly. without using aileron it isn't a banked turn, it's just jawed around or spun on the spot.
If you just want a cool way to come back on yourself that looks nice but is low stress then pull up into a steep near vertical climb with lost of height, at the top when heli is becoming 'stationary' before gravity starts to pull it back then rotate with aileron 180 degs then push the nose over 180 degs with elevator... and your coming down nose first ready to pull level as you near the ground. It's one of many moves called an immelmann turn and because the 'worrying moves for a beginner' happen when heli is almost static you have plenty of time to pull it off. Try it on the sim

[tomatwalden]

That seemed to work okay Tom. Does the one way bearing make a big difference in respect to this? I was thinking of hitting TH from a much lower height than in your video to be honest. My Red Bull 130X has the 4 blade head. Again will that make any difference?

Edit: Also sounds quite intimidating for the house, but you obviously know what you are doing. I'm going to make sure I have a clear acre or two around mine when I first try it!

One way bearing makes very little difference at all to a micro like the 130x. What you gain in blade freedom you lose in overall weight. I wouldn't really recommend them to be honest. But yes, from a couple of inches, TH landing on a 130x are fine. It's how I used to land mine, and still land my 180CFX like that.

As for intimidating for the house - yes a 130x isn't a house heli for sure. Know what I'm doing? Well, I did in that vid as I knew I was just doing some low level hovering. But when I bought my first 450 as a complete newbie, I wasn't so smart ... :-O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2LwYeaOn4Y

Edit : in retrospect, the above video was an incredibly stupid thing to do .. but at the time I didn't know any better

[AnthD]

Hi PGK , that's the word I was looking for Aileron .. What I've been tried to achieve is what Peteski tightly said a hammer turn I was full fwd - full 180 rudder - nose hard down starting a almost vertical drop for speed then gradually pulling up so the heli is at the desired level of flight then back again! If this makes sense !!! :-/

I like it PGK , Immelann turn will try this out tonight when I get a the my 54 seconds to myself that time allows having a toddler running riot here ! :-)

PS. I'm trying to master flying in confined spaces like the sports hall on the sim mistakes are magnified 10 fold as you don't have the room to correct over compensation , it's improving my hover too as I don't mooch off after 5 mins thinking I'm being signed for the Align team in Vegas ;-)

[tomatwalden]

Hi PGK , that's the word I was looking for Aileron .. What I've been tried to achieve is what Peteski tightly said a hammer turn I was full fwd - full 180 rudder - nose hard down starting a almost vertical drop for speed then gradually pulling up so the heli is at the desired level of flight then back again! If this makes sense !!! :-/ ....

I think you're describing a stall turn? Nose up to the sky, rudder around 180 then pull out of the dive? What you really need to practice are nice banked turns, blending aileron, rudder, elevator and collective to make a smooth curve in the sky ..

You might find this useful .. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...2E83D0CA530E14

[Grumpy]

Flat 'pirouette' turns are easiest when you are learning. Some might disagree but I'd recommend progressing in baby steps, it's certainly the least painful and least expensive way to learn. Get comfortable hovering tail in, then work your way up to hovering side on and finally nose in. This will take a while, don't rush it. Then start to get the heli moving in figure eight patterns, but just make slow speed 'flat' turns using rudder. Once you get those off you can start picking up speed and performing banked turns but they are a lot harder because they need smooth co-ordination of all controls and you need the heli to be moving quite quickly. It will take most people months to get to the point of being able to do anything like a smooth and accurate banked turn, some people never get there.

Skipping some of these steps or moving through too quickly is when you crash. It really is possible to learn to fly a heli without constant (or even any) crashing but you have to be patient.

[AnthD]

Thanks mate some good pick ups here already and PGK that's improved my turns no end in that situation Vitical bank - wait for the fwd momentum to stop 180 rudder .. Perfecto !

Ste pirouette turns .. Treat me like I'm a monkey ok ! .. Break it down for me bro !? Ha

Ok so have a movie on , hover training going well , baby monitor silent .. This is all good !image.jpg

[Grumpy]

Anth,

The pirouette is just when the heli rotates on the spot around it's main shaft axis, like when you are in a hover and you apply rudder. A 180 Deg pirouette is the easiest way to reverse direction, but you need to be travelling very slow or stopped to turn that way. This is fine when you are beginning and these turns have the advantage that you dont need to co-ordinate the controls, you just apply rudder. Obviously as your skills build you will want to do 'proper' banked turns but dont try to run before you can walk