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  • this heli problem has me puzzled!

    This is my basher 500. It started life as a trex esp but currently has tarot carbone sides and ally bottom frame, RJX fbl head, front HK boom block, align boom and stays, tarot latest style tail box, plastic tail blades and HK 3D mains. A turnigy typhoon motor and the original align esc. 510's and 520 servos and is on futaba with v1 beastx which has suited me well enough not to bother updating (although i did v3 the one on my 600N)

    Now lots of those bits have had to be changed due to strings of issues recently but i have flown most of those variants for years with no trouble the full saga is ages long and involves a nightmare month of forced autos with greater or lesser successes.

    It started with the front torque gears stripping some 3 sets before i figured there had to be slop in the front boom block (whihc was already HK and had been on there at least 3 years). It got changed and i changed the beat up and hammered straght many times back tail box too. I then had one boom back out on me despite being pinned..somehos the screw cut a channel and it snapped. the the tail end of the next boom snapped off (that was align) followed by the HK tail box snapping a chunk of alloy out - fortunately on the bench. I put the old tail box back on and promptly the tail gears sheared in flight. Why it has a new tarot tail box) I've had to repair other stuff om the reuslting autos as well.

    The situation at the moment is that it flies BUT on takeoff in idle down it spools up smooth and takes off nicely. Flick as i usually do to idle2 (flat 90%) and there's One heck of a power surge and vibration which goes if I flick to idle1 (82%flat throttle) and doesn't come back when i go back to idle2 (which has me puzzled). The original power-up kick chews the back gear set and a second flight isn't safe (as i know by stupidly trying it).

    I'm out of gear sets again so haven't tried just going to idle1 from takeoff.

    I figure it has to be esc or motor but which and why? Looking at servo output screen on the tx there's no sign of it being a problem there and other helis fly fine

    Any ideas? Its close to being jumped on and thrown into a bin
    Last edited by pgkevet; 07-08-2014, 06:32 PM.
    PGK
    450Pro Clone fb, Trex500 fbl beastx, Trex 600N fbl beastx, Trex700N fbl msh brain, Spectra G Hanson 26 3dmax fb, Blitz Avro fb...Futaba 8FG

  • #2
    Hi PGK, you say the power surges, are you running governor (which I don't understand yet!) or using throttle curves? If your normal idle is 0-50-70-80-90 or similar and you switch directly to idle 2 flat 90 then it may just be the jump is too big, initial spool up is smooth start, but once it's up and running it will kick in an extra 20 odd percent at mid stick hover by flicking to IU2. Hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs but if your normal idle was 0-50-80-80-80, then switch to IU1 flat 80 then IU2 flat 90 it shouldn't be such a big kick.

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    • #3
      I've been on the same curve for many years without this happening (on this heli) so sadly it's not that simple.
      PGK
      450Pro Clone fb, Trex500 fbl beastx, Trex 600N fbl beastx, Trex700N fbl msh brain, Spectra G Hanson 26 3dmax fb, Blitz Avro fb...Futaba 8FG

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      • #4
        Originally posted by pgkevet View Post
        A turnigy typhoon motor and the original align esc. I figure it has to be esc or motor but which and why?
        It stands a good chance it is the ESC. ESCs have bugged me recently doing weird things. Have you another to try if you can?

        Incidentally, I go to IU while on the ground once I have spooled up in normal.
        Helicopter pilots get it up quicker.

        When the blue light is flashing I am kidding.

        Why simplify when it is so much simpler to complicate.

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        • #5
          Just wondered if you'd reset curves after rebuilds etc to centre servos or whatnots! Was esc reset? Does it have same setup beeps etc, if all setup is same then must be esc going wangy! Does it have a bec on it?

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          • #6
            I'd say it was your esc, sounds like a component within it is on the way out, don't ask me which one I'm not electrictrickery certified it's just that's what I'd have my money on. I had some weird problems on my 450 about a year ago and it turned out to be the esc, had to buy a new one to find out it was the problem though. Hope you get it sorted soon, Ian.
            [/SIGPIC]Goblin 700 vbar blueline, spektrum Hv servos|Goblin 570 Red/Yellow, mini vbar pro, BK's|Goblin 500 red, mini vbar pro, scorpion 4020 1100kv, jive 100+,BK's |Goblin 380, xnova 2820, mini vbar, yge 90, quick connect|Trex 450 pro 7200bx & RJX fbl head|130x|ncpx|DX9| BMFA Member|

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            • #7
              Originally posted by parksy View Post
              Just wondered if you'd reset curves after rebuilds etc to centre servos or whatnots! Was esc reset? Does it have same setup beeps etc, if all setup is same then must be esc going wangy! Does it have a bec on it?
              It's the original align esc ..so yes it has it's own bec.. and with beastx any rebuild related servo settings are run through that.

              I'm also thinking esc issue but did wonder about whether some motor related resistance build-up could backfeed false info when it kicks into high power?? As we all know it's about £65 to swap out either one. Mind you with the price of gear sets.....
              PGK
              450Pro Clone fb, Trex500 fbl beastx, Trex 600N fbl beastx, Trex700N fbl msh brain, Spectra G Hanson 26 3dmax fb, Blitz Avro fb...Futaba 8FG

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              • #8
                I got a Castle Pro on mine as it was suggested it would be best to not rely on the esc bec to power everything, maybe the upgrades and switch to BX have taken toll on esc! A spare in the box even if it's £65 may save them gears, booms and tail boxes!

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                • #9
                  It's been in it's current configuration for a few years with no signs of bec issues. I doubt it's worn out ..much more likely to have come to some grief from the many times it's hit dirt - probably about 100 by now - Also why a lot of more economic clone parts on there.

                  I'll strip it yet again .. then try some bench tests but likey will stick a new esc on if nothing significant found .. 'cos you have to do soemthing.
                  PGK
                  450Pro Clone fb, Trex500 fbl beastx, Trex 600N fbl beastx, Trex700N fbl msh brain, Spectra G Hanson 26 3dmax fb, Blitz Avro fb...Futaba 8FG

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pgkevet View Post
                    It's been in it's current configuration for a few years with no signs of bec issues. I doubt it's worn out ..much more likely to have come to some grief from the many times it's hit dirt - probably about 100 by now - Also why a lot of more economic clone parts on there.

                    I'll strip it yet again .. then try some bench tests but likey will stick a new esc on if nothing significant found .. 'cos you have to do soemthing.
                    Don't forget to check the torque tube bearing.
                    Do you have another motor to try? Hobby king do a helidrive 500 1600kv which is about £26. showing no stock at the mo so not that helpful but I have one and its mustard. Loads of power, smooth. just got to keep an eye on the bearings. the link is; Radio Control Planes, Helicopters, Cars, Boats, FPV and Quadcopters - Hobbyking*

                    I would also check the esc hasn't somehow gone into gov mode as my 600 efl last year was eating tail gears on each flight and it turned out to be the gov gain set to max.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pgkevet View Post
                      It's the original align esc ..so yes it has it's own bec.. and with beastx any rebuild related servo settings are run through that.

                      As we all know it's about £65 to swap out either one.
                      Try a YEP ESC. I know people scoff and laugh when YEP is mentioned, but they are brilliant. I have YEP's on my Logo 500, Gaui X4 and had one on my Agile 5.5. I say had, as something happened on it's 10 ever flight and it destroyed itself, rekit time We reckon a ball link snapped, by the sound it made before the blades cut the end of the tail off. Anyway, back to the YEP, the governor's are excellent as well and at £30+/- it has to be worth it. I do run a separate BEC, but I do on all my helis anyway.
                      Hope you find and sort the problem.
                      Cheers
                      Andy
                      Logo 600 SX
                      TT E700
                      Synergy 516
                      Vcontrol



                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        It's got to be the ESC or the motor. It's not worn bearings in the motor causing issues?
                        Pete

                        Oxy3, Logo 480xx, Logo 550sx, Rave Ballistic
                        Lynx Heli Team Pilot

                        Proud member of the "too stupid to fly" model heli club

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pug907 View Post
                          Try a YEP ESC. I know people scoff and laugh when YEP is mentioned, but they are brilliant.
                          I used to rate the YEPs and I like them because of the programming card. I like them so much I have several but the last one I had started running the motor backwards and since then I have not been so happy with them.
                          Helicopter pilots get it up quicker.

                          When the blue light is flashing I am kidding.

                          Why simplify when it is so much simpler to complicate.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PeteStewardson View Post
                            It's got to be the ESC or the motor. It's not worn bearings in the motor causing issues?
                            It's not running hot or sounding odd or appreciable slop.
                            PGK
                            450Pro Clone fb, Trex500 fbl beastx, Trex 600N fbl beastx, Trex700N fbl msh brain, Spectra G Hanson 26 3dmax fb, Blitz Avro fb...Futaba 8FG

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by helijohn View Post
                              I used to rate the YEPs and I like them because of the programming card. I like them so much I have several but the last one I had started running the motor backwards and since then I have not been so happy with them.
                              Simple folk like me don't like too many programming options. We want something that autodetects and just works.
                              PGK
                              450Pro Clone fb, Trex500 fbl beastx, Trex 600N fbl beastx, Trex700N fbl msh brain, Spectra G Hanson 26 3dmax fb, Blitz Avro fb...Futaba 8FG

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