How do we save the hobby from Quads?

[PeteStewardson]

Threads like this on this forum do far more damage too our hobby than a guy flying his little quad in a park...and dont start with the "What if" and stick too what actually happened...which was nothing happened...its self appointed fun police like yourself who sit on there phoney moral high ground preaching and moaning that brings this hobby down...Live and let live...try it...

So if I went out and bought one of these and hovered it a couple of feet above your young childs head you'd be fine with it yes? Or I flew it around you at about head height so busy watching my screen that I don't even know how close I'm getting? Or flying it out of sight over towards playing fields full of people and a children's playground not far away? I'll add that this chap pitched up and flew without doing any safety checks or a range check or anything either.

Which park was it in woodley?, I think the view we need to take with this is not to alienate these people. Rather than saying "don't do that" we need to educate them and tell them useful information so that they can change their ways hopefully and not cause issues. The people on this forum who say quads are shit and all that need to grow up and stop being little *****. If you don't like it don't fly them but whether you like it or not they are a big part of the hobby now and will hopefully bring in new people to Heli's as well. The retailers have a responsibility to educate people on the risks and rules etc when selling the products rather than just focusing on the money there making off them.

Highly doubt he was taking video or photos of little children, let's face it there's far cheaper ways than buying yourself a quad copter to do it with. All this rubbish about invasion of privacy is starting to also become and issue. People should be more focused on what the supposedly lawful government is monitoring your activities with.

Let's now make quads/multirotors out to be the problem here. The problem lies within the lack of information about there available to new people and it's up to us to educate and inform them about this. Occasionally there will be people who will ignore you no matter what and these are the people we need to focus on reporting to the authorities as there's nothing we can do to change their mind.

Woodford park mate, Theres a bylaw preventing aircraft flying from, Sandford but not Woodford. The irony is I think Sandford lane is the quietist park out of the two. I'm not sure I'd want a bylaw preventing aircraft, but in many cases people would ignore it anyway I guess. I wouldn't have had a problem with the guy flying his quad had he had a spotter with him, and flown it safely. It would be silly to suggest he could have flown around not flying over anyone, but passing over and hovering over for significant amounts of time are quite different. What he was doing was plain dangerous regardless of the rules he might have broken. Woodford park also has a skate ramp now and that's dangerous enough without a quad buzzing by, it's forever covered in blood as it is.

I also very much doubt he was taking video or photos of children. However both my wife, and the people that spoke to me afterwards were all concerned more about that than the dangers of the quad itself. That worries me just as much as what he was doing, because if something goes t*ts up then public opinion is already against the hobby for the wrong reasons.

What happened is he broke the ANO,and if people keep breaking it we are the ones who will suffer in the end.

And by WE i mean people who want to just fly their rc models for fun,responsibly and will stick to the God damn rules.

Some of the replies on here worry me,it appears the chap did no wrong so maybe it goes on a lot now

Agree completely. I did a quick search on yahoo and Facebook and found it seems to be happening a lot. I even found a friend on Facebook showing a video around his street flying a quad. The video was from the quad, and he doesn't have a live feed so he's probably concentrating more on what it's doing, but again, what happens if someone gets injured through it. Same outcome.

My point all along was quads have made it far more accessible to do this. Thinking about it though, hasn't blade now put a panic feature in the 200? Maybe that would also be in a similar vein, but it's quads I'm seeing so much footage of at the minute, and that's why the thread title is as it is.

a lot of parks have bylaws preventing model flying. so it depends where you are I guess

As I said, there isn't one on this park. I'm not one for spoiling peoples fun so wouldn't want a bylaw either. Had he been flying safely, when the park was quiet even, then no problem.

[mahbouni]

a lot of parks have bylaws preventing model flying. so it depends where you are I guess

For all the council run parks in my area, the bylaws prohibit the flying of model aircraft powered by an engine that burns combustible fuel. These bylaws were written in 1978 when electric models were not common. There are no bylaws to stop anyone flying a T-Rex 700E, however you could be stopped by the police for other reasons.

Councils need to update the bylaws to include all model aircraft. Some parks are designated public flying sites. The bylaws for these parks should be updated to ensure that pilots are a member of the club that operates there. Epsom Downs has this bylaw in place.

[pgkevet]

For all the council run parks in my area, the bylaws prohibit the flying of model aircraft powered by an engine that burns combustible fuel. These bylaws were written in 1978 when electric models were not common. There are no bylaws to stop anyone flying a T-Rex 700E, however you could be stopped by the police for other reasons.

Councils need to update the bylaws to include all model aircraft. Some parks are designated public flying sites. The bylaws for these parks should be updated to ensure that pilots are a member of the club that operates there. Epsom Downs has this bylaw in place.

I'm not sure i agree. Epsom rules mean that you couldn't just go for a fly without making sure another member is there, join etc whereas the rules at croydon were much more relaxed. the area was well known and anyone could rock up and fly (model type and times did have rules). The flying area was marked out and generally was well policed by the folk that went. If anything it was the original club plank members that flew way out of bounds over the factories. It has good viz over the area helis used and dog wakers etc all knew and generally tolerated us. Yes, there will always be wally's who let dogs chase models or walk right across the runway etc but frankly the biggest issues were travellers camping out or 9yr olds on dirt bikes haring across two up without helmets. If i felt like a fly then I could go solo and stay safe with commonsense and with the goodly distance you could see then any possible 'threat' during a heli flight was generally obvious before takeoff. And you'ld rarely be there for long before another pilot rocked up. It would have been best improved wth a flagpole and 'flying in progress' flag to raise or perhaps a flashing beacon - except likely either would be nicked.

[Mark_T]

Now the BMFA suggest that a spotter is required when flying FPV, its clear that this gentleman either ignored this advice or is oblivious to it. The regulation also states a required distance of 50m (can someone verify this please, can't find the reg atm) from buildings or persons when flying with an on board camera.

Here you go: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ORS4%20...20Aircraft.pdf

The spotter is a lot more than a suggestion, it is a legal requirement as per the link above and any resulting prosecution would be criminal rather than civil.

So if everything was as described the gentleman in question committed a criminal offence and if reported to the CAA with sufficient evidence could well find himself in court answering the charges.

[Mark_T]

It also scares me that folk use the paedo suggestion at every opportunity.

Me too, one of my other hobbies, photography, has been virtually killed off by this kind of knee-jerk reaction. Hugely ironic really when pretty much every phone has a camera these days and it is far easier to take photos without being noticed using a phone than if you go equipped with a full SLR kit, but it is the guy openly carrying his expensive camera around who will get lynched by the angry mob ...

My wife works in the child care industry and the amount of training she has to undertake is beyond belief and what she is being trained to look for and the assumptions she is required to make are frankly frightening in the degree to which the rare but bad cases of abuse have forced those in such roles to take the most negative views of everything that might have previously been considered 'normal'.

One last general point while I'm at it, I grow very tired of the 'fun police' comment some around here are prone to using, especially when it is trotted out as an insult to people concerned about criminal behaviour.

If what you consider to be 'fun', is what society and Government consider to be a crime then you have already lost the debate.

The fact that nothing bad happened on a specific occasion does not mean that the act was not criminal nor that it should be condoned.

Reserve the 'fun police' comment for those trying to stop you doing what you are legally allowed to do and you'll have no complaints from me, plenty of good times to use it, but the incident reported here was not one of them.

[muscleflex]

This is the problem with quads (don't call them drones! I hate that term!), they're so cheap now and everyone assumes they're just toys and fly them without care.
GPS flight controls make it so easy for anyone to fly them hence everyone is out buying them without any experience.

[Peper]

when a member of the public appraches and asks:
1. how high does it go?
2. how much does it cost?
3. how difficult to fly is it?

if we reply honestly, they will either walk away willing to join a good club and read a bit about rules and regulations, or they will give up the idea on the spot!

now if we tell them that if they get into trouble they can press a button and the thing will land to their foot, I am sure some will like the idea and the "boring" bit of understanding the rules and/or joining a club will be bypassed.
with recent developments I am sure the Helis and planes will be able to do it as wel,l but up to now, this is not possible with an out of the box model unless its a quad.

my point is that the quads, specially the ones with cameras are much more appealing to the General public and they are very good sellers, so it is only a matter of time until we start seeing more incidents involving them.
in the end, good hobbyist, that actually understands what they are doing (in most cases anyway ) will face the same challanges as "Mr Bob" that has more money than brains does.

[mahbouni]

I'm not sure i agree. Epsom rules mean that you couldn't just go for a fly without making sure another member is there, join etc whereas the rules at croydon were much more relaxed. the area was well known and anyone could rock up and fly (model type and times did have rules). The flying area was marked out and generally was well policed by the folk that went. If anything it was the original club plank members that flew way out of bounds over the factories. It has good viz over the area helis used and dog wakers etc all knew and generally tolerated us. Yes, there will always be wally's who let dogs chase models or walk right across the runway etc but frankly the biggest issues were travellers camping out or 9yr olds on dirt bikes haring across two up without helmets. If i felt like a fly then I could go solo and stay safe with commonsense and with the goodly distance you could see then any possible 'threat' during a heli flight was generally obvious before takeoff. And you'ld rarely be there for long before another pilot rocked up. It would have been best improved wth a flagpole and 'flying in progress' flag to raise or perhaps a flashing beacon - except likely either would be nicked.

I'm not sure what it is you disagree on

[h3mp]

Woodford park mate, Theres a bylaw preventing aircraft flying from, Sandford but not Woodford. The irony is I think Sandford lane is the quietist park out of the two.

That's a shame - Sandford park can be deserted of an evening.. whilst trudging back from the Land's End

Is there an easy way to tell if a park has by-laws? couldn't see an easy way to tell on the councils website.. Wanted somewhere bigger than my garden to fly my nano-cpx.. if i took one that small to a club I think i might get laughed at

[Mark_T]

Is there an easy way to tell if a park has by-laws?

They have to be posted on signs at the park, so have a look around for any official looking notice boards ...

[muscleflex]

Parks in Leeds NEVER have any signs!
The only official council permitted field is Middleton for flying aircrafts! And guess what - it's a public park as well so people are free to lay sunbathing or walk right in the middle of the field next to the takeoff/landing strip and believe me, most times - they do
Useless field! No better than any other parks in Leeds.
And to top it off - Middleton is kinda classed as a 'rough' area as well. Most times, when the plane flyers fly and crash - they have to be prepared to run straight for it as there's always a chance some mugs will be running off with it!

[maddog7]

It's a difficult one this but it boils down IMHO to ignorance.
Very likely the dude in question has not the faintest idea of the potential harm he could do but this is where it all spreads out for me, my usual club field is on recreational council land and apart from only club members being licenced by the council to fly models on the field, practically anything goes. We get people practicing casting fishing rods down the length of the strip, practicing golf driving but the biggest potential threat is from people walking dogs. I love my dog and would never expose her to the dangers of a model flying field unless closely supervised and always on a lead.
The number of times people have allowed up to five or six dogs to run amok while we are actually up in the air is astonishing.
In my opinion it's purely down to the fact that they havn't a clue what dangers lie therein for both them and the animals who's safety they supposedly guard. Well behaved and in control is no problem.

It's a no win situation because whichever way we turn we're likely only to throw out the baby with the bath water. All we can do is politely educate, shouting and screaming usually only alienates people and if anyone willfully damaged the quad of most of the people I know who fly them they'd likely end up with their fu&c1ng coupons smashed.

The press in this country are at best hungrier than there is food for and at worst lying scumbags who've sold their souls to big business (I've a few ex army mates and they'll tell you, what the press reported in the middle east was nothing near the whole story)

There is no law against filming/photographing anywhere public in the uk (at the minute) only suspicion of terrorism (as far as I last knew) could allow the police to stop someone filming.

The worry then though is that our ability to protect and defend ourselves from crooked government/law enforcement/road accident fraudsters etc will come severely under threat.

In my conspiratorial way I do wonder if the press banging on about "drones" will be another way to prevent freedom of information between people in the same way that suppression of internet content does/will. Keep the sheeple in the dark and we're easier to manipulate.


The can of worms this opens is IMHO massive with more questions than answers and do wonder if the original post might have been better unsaid. I do say that with the utmost of respect for the OP.

The ignorance of the Phantom pilot will bring bad tidings for us but so will the debate we are fostering within.
(Of which I know I am part)

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”



― Albert Einstein

[p4ddy]

How do we save the hobby from quads??




BURN THEM ALL!!!!!!

[heathy]

How do we save the hobby from quads??




BURN THEM ALL!!!!!!

Then stamp on them for to make double sure it's dead.

[pgkevet]

I'm not sure what it is you disagree on

..just the idea of park flying being restricted to club mmebers. You don't have to be a club member to be responsible..nor are they all.