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  • How do we save the hobby from Quads?

    OK so maybe the title is a bit OTT, but maybe not.

    Today I was in the local park in Woodley with the family. Plenty of people out enjoying the sun and my wife walked over to the town while I stayed with my 4 YO son and 1 YO daughter as my son had another go at driving his RC truck ( not very well won't listen to a word I tell him. )

    Anyway there was a chap turned up, on his own, with a DJI Phantom ( had to look it up tonight ) and immediately flew it the length of the park over some trees and clearly unsighted and flew for a bit using the screen he had on the controller. Over a period of 10 minutes or so I watched him flying this thing over the park, several times hovering it right above our heads at height. Then he flew it around lower, at one point flying it around a guy walking over the park at around head height. Never once looking at the model, only looking and focusing on his screen, so probably had no idea how close he was to the guy. Throughout this whole time I was getting more and more annoyed at him flying around recklessly. But then the final straw when he ended up hovering it about 2 to 3 FEET above my 4 YO sons head. I got my son to come over to me and then once he'd landed and it was safe for everyone went over to the guy. I say landed but he hovered it at about shoulder height and then grabbed it by the skids to retrieve it.

    I asked him if he was in the BMFA and he immediately said yes, When I then asked him if he'd read the handbook on flight safety he seemed puzzled ( hmmmm yeah so that's a no to the BMFA membership after all then. ) I pointed out several of the ways he'd broken various rules, and asked if he even knew who the CAA were and what rules they enforced? When I quizzed him about why it was acceptable to hover only a couple of feet above my sons head he reacted quizzically as if he didn't even realise how low he was. He'd probably been focused so closely on the screen over most of his flight that he had no idea how close he was getting to other people in the park. He then quickly packed up, put the quad in the boot of his MPV and drove away. Funnily enough I had two people then ask me if I knew him, and on telling them I didn't and I'd just had a chat with him about how dangerous what he'd done was they thanked me. Actually they were more worried about the fact that he could have been filming there kids than the dangers of these things.

    My thought is, that people buying and flying these things without any thought to the dangers involved are a very serious threat to our hobby.

    Having looked them up this DJI Quad isn't exactly cheap, the guy was ( at a guess ) in his late 40's early 50's and looked like a respectable guy so should know better. Anyone can go online, buy something like this, and then off they go.

    Other than going and having a chat with anyone we see flying these things dangerously, what else can we, and/or the retailers, do to prevent this causing problems for the rest of us in the hobby?
    Pete

    Oxy3, Logo 480xx, Logo 550sx, Rave Ballistic
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    Proud member of the "too stupid to fly" model heli club

  • #2
    I would have stomped on the offending item myself, there boring enough at the best of times and have a place, filming events etc or landmarks. Not in public parks around people. He might have even been a pedo. You get his registration?
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    • #3
      Sounds like you did what you could given the circumstances, most likely ignorant of the regulations rather than willfully breaking them (not that it would make a difference in court...) and you gave him a chance to inform himself before doing it again.

      If you see him again at the park doing the same thing I'd be inclined to snap a couple of photos including his car reg and leave the rest to the CAA ...

      ... some might say you could have done that this time as well ...

      With most of this kit being bought online and a number of forums that really don't try very hard to educate people on the legalities, I don't see this getting any less prevalent any time soon ...

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      • #4
        Yes I got his reg. TBH I don't really think he meant any harm, I have no reason to think he was filming kids specifically. But he was clearly reckless and had no clue how dangerous what he was doing really was.

        Actually having checked my phone I don't have his reg, the photo I took clear enough as I took it in a hurry.
        Last edited by PeteStewardson; 01-06-2014, 09:25 PM.
        Pete

        Oxy3, Logo 480xx, Logo 550sx, Rave Ballistic
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        Proud member of the "too stupid to fly" model heli club

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        • #5
          well dont know what hobby you are talking about - but if its model aircrafts or rotorcrafts you probably need to admit, that even your helicopter fits in both categories ...

          if you just want to rant about some fool flying his device carelessly - consider that done and I think you did the right thing in approaching him - if you had taken his plate you probably could have taken it further but thats as far as it gets ...
          Sev

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          • #6
            I agree with most of your concerns, but I would point out that a couple of years ago, a friend of mine's 8 yr old Son had his leg broken badly when an electric radio controlled car driven by an unknown hit him while out in the local park.

            So, other members of the public might take umbrage to your Son's bad driving skills with his toy car maybe? Is there a 'car' equivalent to the BMFA? If so, are you/your Son a member with appropriate insurance?

            Not intending to have a go at you personally, just playing Devil's Advocate.
            JR Vibe Fifty fb (YS56)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by r4nd0m View Post
              well dont know what hobby you are talking about - but if its model aircrafts or rotorcrafts you probably need to admit, that even your helicopter fits in both categories ...
              I don't get you? A quad is just a 4 rotor'd heli? Quads have made it VERY accessible for someone to buy and fly without any idea of the consequences. They're easier to fly, and much easier if you use the screen so orientation isn't an issue, and so more people can buy and then take them into public places with seemingly no regard for what they're doing. I'm seeing this a lot more these days. However, it only takes a couple of injuries, or god forbid a fatality with one of these things and we will all suffer.
              Pete

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              Lynx Heli Team Pilot

              Proud member of the "too stupid to fly" model heli club

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Steve View Post
                I agree with most of your concerns, but I would point out that a couple of years ago, a friend of mine's 8 yr old Son had his leg broken badly when an electric radio controlled car driven by an unknown hit him while out in the local park.

                So, other members of the public might take umbrage to your Son's bad driving skills with his toy car maybe? Is there a 'car' equivalent to the BMFA? If so, are you/your Son a member with appropriate insurance?

                Not intending to have a go at you personally, just playing Devil's Advocate.
                Actually there's a big difference, his car is turned right down so doesn't go quick, I'm watching it and whats around, and we were driving it in an area without anyone around it. That's far different from hovering a quad around someone at head height and then hovering it a couple of feet above a 4yo's head.
                Pete

                Oxy3, Logo 480xx, Logo 550sx, Rave Ballistic
                Lynx Heli Team Pilot

                Proud member of the "too stupid to fly" model heli club

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                • #9
                  oh so you say its more difficult to buy a RTF helicopter go to the local park an hurt someone with it? no it isn't - what I am saying is, quads are part of the model aircraft community same way as helicopters or planes, free flights etc ... I have heard so many times helicopter pilots being offended by plane flyers not liking them and I see a slight tendency lately of the same behaviour from some helicopter pilots towards quad flyers ...

                  just take it as a fact as they become more accessible people will use them ... there will be always the ones who use them appropriately and the fools who dont care - but those majority of the time wont have insurance or will be affiliated with any governing body anyway ...

                  I have given the example to fellow pilots at the club a few weeks back ... when not being that familiar I was attending when someone flew a 600 in a MK public park - today I wouldnt do that except it was deserted but at the time there were people lying on the grass ... careless? not really, dangerous no doubt - but perfectly legal - so if you want to push your council to enforce by-laws in your park feel free to doing so ... but maybe you wont be able to race your truck there neither in future as they might ban all RC models ...
                  Sev

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                  • #10
                    You're missing the point completely. Where have I stated that a quad is not part of the hobby? They're not but have the potential to rip apart the hobby. In fact I've always thought this infighting between plane and hell pilots is more than a bit silly. But that's not the point.

                    Yes anyone can by a RTF hell, but I don't see that happening as often as people flying quads in public these days.

                    Lets take this a bit extreme...

                    A child dies when a quad hits them in a park
                    The publicity and outcry then puts the media on the entire hobby. Lets face it a 700 is even more dangerous than most quads, what will the media REALLY go after?
                    Councils close the clubs on public land due to public opinion ( there's plenty of clubs that do run on public land open to anyone to walk across. (The Reading club being one of them, not that I'm a member there because of the attitude to hell pilots I got when I spoke to them )
                    Even some farmers then decide not to rent out land to clubs for fear of the public view. Lets face it they're having enough of a hard time without people on their backs for helis and planes as well.

                    Then where is the hobby?

                    Now I know Sev you would say I could replace the word quad in there with any hell or plane, but as I say, the Quads are much more accessible to people as they're easier to fly, and the number of them being flown in public places ( just look on Facebook and youtube ) is climbing at a large rate.
                    Pete

                    Oxy3, Logo 480xx, Logo 550sx, Rave Ballistic
                    Lynx Heli Team Pilot

                    Proud member of the "too stupid to fly" model heli club

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                    • #11
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by r4nd0m View Post
                        when not being that familiar I was attending when someone flew a 600 in a MK public park - today I wouldnt do that except it was deserted but at the time there were people lying on the grass ... careless? not really, dangerous no doubt - but perfectly legal - so if you want to push your council to enforce by-laws in your park feel free to doing so
                        I'd counter that though and say it was careless, if you say it was dangerous. And also if you admit it was dangerous you were also flying illegally as you would have been breaking CAA rules.
                        Pete

                        Oxy3, Logo 480xx, Logo 550sx, Rave Ballistic
                        Lynx Heli Team Pilot

                        Proud member of the "too stupid to fly" model heli club

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                        • #13
                          I agree,ive said before,people flying models in this way will bring down our hobby.

                          I dont know about other parts of the country but Dorset Police are currently contacting all model flying clubs and wanting to know what types of models are being flown and what they are being used for,FILMING and LOAD CARRYING are their main concerns and as iT happens QUADS are the reason its happening.

                          We are not 100% Sure whats at the bottom of this but its happening here now,our club is being visited this month to observe our activities and all clubs are on the list..if landowners are contacted by them they might not want to have clubs on their land,if councils get involved what about the use of land which many clubs duck under?

                          Whatever way you dress this up,its not good news for our hobby long term.
                          Last edited by ChrisB; 01-06-2014, 10:06 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Sev isn't wrong though, any of you old enough to be able to cast their minds back about 35 years or so should be able to recall pretty much the same things being said about helicopters at the time.

                            They required no 'skill' to build, being made up of parts you bolt together with no woodwork, tissue or film involved, could be flown from anywhere as they didn't require a flat grass landing strip and were being bought by people with no background in flying model aircraft and so would inevitably lead to the downfall of the entire hobby ...

                            Let's try not to go down the path that the plane fraternity took back then and try to enlighten and help those we see doing the wrong thing with these models.

                            If they will not listen and continue to behave recklessly then off to the CAA it is I guess, but I'd rather try to include them in the broad category of rotorcraft along with the heli fraternity than ostracise them the way the a lot of heli pilots were when first starting ...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PeteStewardson View Post
                              You're missing the point completely.
                              I strongly doubt it as I mentioned it already

                              Originally posted by r4nd0m View Post
                              I think you did the right thing in approaching him - if you had taken his plate you probably could have taken it further but thats as far as it gets ...
                              Originally posted by r4nd0m View Post
                              if you want to push your council to enforce by-laws in your park feel free to doing so ... but maybe you wont be able to race your truck there neither in future as they might ban all RC models ...
                              Originally posted by PeteStewardson View Post
                              Lets take this a bit extreme...

                              A child dies when a quad hits them in a park
                              replace "quad hits them" with "dog attacks them" - has happened already and even more interestingly happens every now and then again and they are still allowed in parks to my knowledge ... dont start painting everything black - there surely will be regulations in place and as far as I can see the BMFA, CAA and others like Stuart I trying to aid in that process ... I consider it being taken care well care of ... if you read the last BMFA magazine they explained the insurance and everything again - mentioning that you need to comply with the rules ...

                              so I think it goes as usual "if you commit a crime - prepare to do the time" ...

                              its the topic "how can we save the hobby from quads" that worries me as it goes against a discipline .. on the other hand you are asking for more regulation BUT want to assure that your discipline wont be affected by the outcome ...

                              as mentioned, I think you did the right thing and thats it ... no one got hurt the guy got educated - situation resolved ...
                              Sev

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