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a little ramble

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  • a little ramble

    As you may know I have been out of the sport since the start of 2009.

    Things have changed a lot in the years since then. Electric is not just a viable alternative to glow, its actually better giving more power if still lacking a little duration compared to nitro

    the extra powered combined with the accuracy and drag reduction of flybarless has not basically made one skill redundant.

    "collective management"

    5 years ago with nitro you couldn't point the nose in the air and wave the collective and cyclic around and "do" ticktocks. it took finesse to get the speed of the ticktoc up and a perfectly tuned engine, never using too much cycling or collective at the same time. get it wrong and the headspeed would drop and it would fall out of the sky.

    also the torque vrs speed curve is different for electric and nitro. With nitro we used to run at a little over peak power, which meant that the torque would increase a little bit when you loaded up the the rotorhead. However load it up too much and the torque would drop and you would have to back off the cyclic and collective a lot to get the headspeed back up.

    with electric the torque increases as the rpm drops. All the way to zero rpm.

    Yesterday phil hubble kindly let me fly his Logo 500 and his mental logo extreme with 800mm blades. Its huge but flies "small" nothing like the turbines I have flown in the past which were the same size although im sure they were a lot heavier.

    It used to be when buying a heli you would, for me at least fly a friends heli and see how it flew. Head geometry was a big part of the choice for me. The low flybar input of the knight, ease of tuning, choice of leading or trailing edge control all affected how the model responded.

    These days the flybarless controller takes care of all of that and an awful lot more.

    once you remove the rotor head from the equation a helicopter is pretty much just an expensive gearbox!

    In this area atleast clubs have changed a lot, flying at smaller fields, electric has opened up a lot of sites that you could never fly with a nitro model.

    enough rambling, im off to scrape some pennies together for a heli!
    Last edited by Ade_Law; 13-12-2013, 10:46 PM.
    www.accurc.com
    adrian@accurc.com
    This is an apple free zone
    anybody can be an Arsehole, it takes real commitment, dedication and a whole lot of effort to be nice.

  • #2
    So after all that what are you going to buy :-)




    Goblin 700, Vbar Silverline, Savox SC-1267MG / SB-2272MG.Scorpion opto 130. Align 750mx /450kv
    Trex 500 EFL Pro, DFC, Vbar 5.3 Full Pro.
    CopterX 250 SE FBL, With Align upgrades and 3GX
    JR XG 7
    Mini CP, Heading for retirement.

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    • #3
      Very well written post thank you ! So what are you going to buy ??

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      • #4
        I had a T-Rex 600N and I found that in flybarred mode it wouldn't track at all well in forward flight.

        Other club members found the same. Having converted the model to flybarless it became a completely different model. Maybe the model was still wanting to track badly but the controller was stopping it.
        Member of Mk Heli Club



        GRAMMAR: The difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit!

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        • #5
          Nice one Ade, good to see you back.
          Well... what are you buying?
          The Fleet

          SAB Goblin 500 sport. (in build)
          XK K110 on its way. Arrived and superb
          Blade MCPX (just about airworthy)
          Trex 450 Pro on Brain 2
          Raptor 30 V2. Converted to electric with Quick UK conversion
          Mini Titan super Cobra ah1
          Alien 550 Quad.3DR Pixhawk
          Futaba 7C 8FGS 14SG
          Specktrum DX6i
          Hovered by me,flown by my boys Nicholas and Edward.
          Cheers,
          Paul

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          • #6
            Just to add slightly to your musings on the state of things; One thing a few of us were noticing a while back is that with nitro we were used to running at certain headspeeds because it was a product of the engine rpm and gearing (and as you mention, strategically keeping it in the powerband). So for a .50 nitro for example you would have around 2000 ish headspeed. But with electric it seems the norm is to run quite a bit higher headspeed and it seems to be needed. I started thinking about why it seemed that the headspeed needs to be higher with electric and it's one of two things (or a bit of both);

            1. There's less inertia in the drivetrain due to the electric motor having a much lower spinning mass vs a nitro engine with clutch and fan etc.
            2. We're just used to more power and more sensitive to seeing any bogging at all, basically spoiled to the power and less tolerant of any amount of bogging.

            Of course the thing is, with electric you can just about have as much power as you want as long as you're willing to tolerate lower flight times in the bargain. You can have the equivalent of a .91 engine in a 550 size airframe with very little weight penalty.
            Kasama, Minicopter, Henseleit, JR, Shape, Beam
            Robbe, RMJ Raptor gasser, powered by
            Spartan, Spirit, BeastX, Kontronik, CY Total-G, DX8

            member of Epsom Downs and Bloobird clubs
            Proud recipient of 7 EGS! and a platinum star

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            • #7
              I find it surprising the difference in feel various models have while all using the same flybarless system. There's a little more to it than at first might seem.
              I think it generally comes down to the weight of the model giving the differing feels in the air, but those differences are there for sure :-)

              Get a Raptor E700. Cheap kit and cheap spares, and holy sh1t is it awesome!

              Cheers,
              Rob
              Team Align, Midland Helicopters, Optifuel, Cyclone Blades, Scorpion Motors, Thunder Power, Savox Servos, JR Propo

              | 3D Championship

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              • #8
                I had a Trex 600N DFc for most of this year running a 55hzr motor on 30% Optipower and I was really impressed with the performance of my first real nitro helicopter. yes you had to be a little bit more gentle on the pitch but it teaches you a lot with regards pitch control and different manoeuvres, you cant just bang the power in when you feel like it as you can do with a electric motor.

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                • #9
                  700 is too big to fly solo in my local spot.

                  I'm not making a decision on what I'm getting until I have the money together after a couple of flights and meeting around helping Phil with his piro flips the cobwebs and confidence were all coming back. I'm looking forward to putting a model together 😀

                  Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
                  www.accurc.com
                  adrian@accurc.com
                  This is an apple free zone
                  anybody can be an Arsehole, it takes real commitment, dedication and a whole lot of effort to be nice.

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                  • #10
                    Nice to see you back Ade
                    Always enjoyed reading your posts. Look forward to seeing you fly again!
                    Ian

                    Knight 3D

                    Velocity 50
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      i think the clue is in the post
                      sent by my nexus
                      is it the 30 or 46 one?
                      and will you blow the cobwebs off it before converting it to electric
                      Hirobo Turbulence D3
                      a bunch of bls servo's and a 701 gyro
                      Powered by an OS91 hz and a MP2
                      Winner of the LHC Scale Cup 2011

                      1/4 scale Vario Bell 47 G3
                      1/3 scale Vario R22
                      2012 LHC Scale Cup Judge
                      member of save the flybar foundation
                      www.alcesterhelicopterclub.bmfa.org
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        eww no... just no!

                        Originally posted by electricsceadu View Post
                        i think the clue is in the post
                        sent by my nexus
                        is it the 30 or 46 one?
                        and will you blow the cobwebs off it before converting it to electric
                        www.accurc.com
                        adrian@accurc.com
                        This is an apple free zone
                        anybody can be an Arsehole, it takes real commitment, dedication and a whole lot of effort to be nice.

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                        • #13
                          I think you should get a K3d and put a FBL head on it Ade!! Mine flies superb!! If it was whole, IE id not stole the servos for another heli, and needing a couple of grip bearings, you could have borrowed it.
                          Some say my left nipple is the shape of a Raptor canopy.......... And that for fun I chase sheep in wellies 3 sizes too big. All I know is I am ​3D Clod
                          Very proud to be a Presenter on ROTORS! The RC Helicopter show


                          Very proud to be a 2x EGS winner

                          Collector of SAB Goblins

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                          • #14
                            Thanks Kev,

                            but (prepare to faint anybody that was around when I was flying)...

                            electric rocks.

                            Yes the flight time is still a bit on the short side. but flippin eck the power especially combined with fbl.

                            its not just a bit more... its fully cycling and collective together and the model barely notices other than taking off like some kind of Cat thats had a swimming pool dumped on its head.

                            thanks to dillwhacker for pointing out the typo in my caffeine deprived post this morning!

                            and forgot to post a link to a pic of phil and his logo xxtreme and a video of phil flying another logo.

                            https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AdrianC...ts/5eASoPZLgTc

                            Ade
                            www.accurc.com
                            adrian@accurc.com
                            This is an apple free zone
                            anybody can be an Arsehole, it takes real commitment, dedication and a whole lot of effort to be nice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ade, I'm in a similar position. I haven't flown a heli for a few years now and the urge to get involved again is pretty high.
                              Regarding electrics, the battery prices are much lower now and the 'C' ratings are a lot higher than i remember (if true).

                              Good luck with whatever you buy...

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