Advice on progression path (next TX and best Phoenix model)

[Brewber]

Hi All,

I have a CX2 & Phoenix for a little while now and, as I use the sim 1hr per day to practice, I am considering how to spend the (ethereal) money burning a hole in my pocket.

Assuming I have a budget of £800 - £1000 and prefer electric (but could be persuaded to go nitro), a few questions:

(1) Is a sensible next heli a Trex 450 SE V2?

(2) Would a more expensive Tx perform any differently with Phoenix than the one I am using that came with the CX2?

(3) What is a sensible (i.e. has long term potential use) choice of Tx, presuming that I will ultimately aim to progress from a 450 size to 600/50 size heli?

(3) What are sensible/common sensitivity curves when flying the Trex 450 on Phoenix?

(4) Is the phoenix physics model of the 450 the most realistic compared to an actual 450 SE V2, or should I be practising on some other model?

(5) What should I be able to achieve (maneouvres etc) on Phoenix's 450 model before actually buying/flying a real 450?

(6) What do "throttle hold" and "idle up" do in relation to an electric heli? (braces himself for asking dumb questions).

As always, thanks in advance for any/all advice, its always appreciated.

Brewber

[Disc]

Hi All,

I have a CX2 & Phoenix for a little while now and, as I use the sim 1hr per day to practice, I am considering how to spend the (ethereal) money burning a hole in my pocket.

Assuming I have a budget of £800 - £1000 and prefer electric (but could be persuaded to go nitro), a few questions:

(1) Is a sensible next heli a Trex 450 SE V2?

(2) Would a more expensive Tx perform any differently with Phoenix than the one I am using that came with the CX2?

(3) What is a sensible (i.e. has long term potential use) choice of Tx, presuming that I will ultimately aim to progress from a 450 size to 600/50 size heli?

(3) What are sensible/common sensitivity curves when flying the Trex 450 on Phoenix?

(4) Is the phoenix physics model of the 450 the most realistic compared to an actual 450 SE V2, or should I be practising on some other model?

(5) What should I be able to achieve (maneouvres etc) on Phoenix's 450 model before actually buying/flying a real 450?

(6) What do "throttle hold" and "idle up" do in relation to an electric heli? (braces himself for asking dumb questions).

As always, thanks in advance for any/all advice, its always appreciated.

Brewber

1. Consider the T-rex 500 bigger than the 450 and more stable.

2. no idea

3. A good TX like a DX-7 or Futaba 7cap now on 2.4ghz.

4. Try a few other models. Bigger are more stable

5. depends really does... never learned with a sim myself.

6. Idle up 1 is for flying around with -12 pitch and +12 pitch with throttle curves at 100,80,80,80,100 Throttle hold er means that motor hopefully won't turn those blades

Look at finding a Good club if I was you.

While the T-rex 450 is nice be warned its size does make it twitchy and in the winds not so good for a beginner aim at a larger machine.

Nitro's are nice if not oilly and yukky The T-rex 600e is also worth looking at but battery prices are well expensive.

I'd recommend find a Good local club and also look at the T-rex 500 or T-rex 600e machines.
800-1000 pounds would kit a T-rex 500 out and get you a charger and some batterys for it.

[richieclarkie]

1 - The 450 is great but with a budget of £1000 I would definitely be looking at the TREX 500 and build up the flight packs for it.

2 No, although the gimbles on more expensive TXs do feel a little nicer, but your is fine.

3 The ONLY sensible choice IMHO is the DX7.

(3 relates to the second 3) Leave everything as it comes. You can put expo in butI would leave it standard.

4 It's not bad but I would say the 500 (just released) is worth learning with. Trust is any of the helis will help you and I wouldn't worry too much about how close they are at this stage.

5 Hoevering tail in, taking off and landing. These must be very good in the sim before you are able to do them for real. Hovering is actually slightly easier for real assuming your helis is setup properly.

6 Throttle hold on an electric heli is first and formost used by pilots who want to perform autos (flying down and landing unpowered). Also you can use it to check that your pitch and cyclic movements are all fine without the blades turning.

Idle up is necessary so your throttle curve allows inverted flight. If you don't know about idle up, that requires a little more explanation than is needed here.

Hope that helps

Hi All,

I have a CX2 & Phoenix for a little while now and, as I use the sim 1hr per day to practice, I am considering how to spend the (ethereal) money burning a hole in my pocket.

Assuming I have a budget of £800 - £1000 and prefer electric (but could be persuaded to go nitro), a few questions:

(1) Is a sensible next heli a Trex 450 SE V2?

(2) Would a more expensive Tx perform any differently with Phoenix than the one I am using that came with the CX2?

(3) What is a sensible (i.e. has long term potential use) choice of Tx, presuming that I will ultimately aim to progress from a 450 size to 600/50 size heli?

(3) What are sensible/common sensitivity curves when flying the Trex 450 on Phoenix?

(4) Is the phoenix physics model of the 450 the most realistic compared to an actual 450 SE V2, or should I be practising on some other model?

(5) What should I be able to achieve (maneouvres etc) on Phoenix's 450 model before actually buying/flying a real 450?

(6) What do "throttle hold" and "idle up" do in relation to an electric heli? (braces himself for asking dumb questions).

As always, thanks in advance for any/all advice, its always appreciated.

Brewber

[richieclarkie]

I would also agree with Disk that the best option is to join a club. Nitro is definitely worth looking into too.

[Brewber]

Thanks so far guys. I find the world of nitro a bit daunting until I see some kind of tutorial that breaks down for me things like breaking in engines, glow plugs, the devices used to get it going, clutches and wear & tear etc, mixture settings/considerations & stuff about fuel tanks, headers, fuel magnets etc.

I like electric cos they're plug & play but damn the lipos are expensive for bigger helis + charging gear + longevity of batteries, so I'm open to nitro with the downsides being noise and maintenance.

Finally, at what point should BFMA insurance be wise/required to invest in? Is it based on model size, flying locations, use of a nitro engine?

[Andy from Sandy]

1. The $64,000 question. Loads of people will say yes, but I have been out in winds that would blow a 450 into the next county. My 50 size copes very well. If you wait for the weather you will wait forever!
2. Sim setup doesn't use any fancy features. Unless your tx has noisy pots and is causing jitter of the displayed helicopter I doubt you will see a difference.
3a. A 7 or 9 channel tx with eCCPM swash mixing. (You probably wont find one without now).
3b. Don't know.
4. Don't know.
5. I learnt to hover using the sim. I didn't actually do much with a sim except get hovering really good. I took this to the field and on my first flight with a 50 size the guy was pretty impressed with how I did.
6. Thottle hold will stop the motor from powering up. Basically you have to program in the tx the idle setting, so for an electric you set it to throttle fully closed. You use idle up to basically allow you to fly upside-down. In normal mode when you pull the stick down you close the throttle even though the blades might be going negative. This is obvious so you can stop flying. Now when you switch into idle up you set the throttle curve such that power is increased when the blades go negative. You will also find this useful when you progress into forward flight and want to get the helicopter down in windy conditions. In normal mode when you pull the stick down you are reducing the headspeed and therefore you will start to lose control of the model. Tail authority will start to diminish also. By flying with constant power the headspeed is maintained and the helicopter responds correctly.

Most clubs are affiliated so your fees normally include BMFA insurance. It has nothing to do with size of helicopter. It is a liability insurance should you crash you model into someone or something.

[Andy from Sandy]

I should also like to add that any combo deal you see in a shop is for the benefit of the shop keeper not you the buyer. Please remeber that. That is the stark reality of business.

Buy good, buy once. Buy cheap, buy twice. For your £800 you will get very good quality parts that are going to last.

[Mike W]

Personally I like nitro ... but then i am a petty head lol .... Elec's are nice as no noise and no mess .... But the batteries to run the larger size ones are expensive ... nitro and elec each have there pro's and con's... A good club is the way to go and see what everyone else is flying ..Ya dont have to buy what they use but it gives ya an idea of whats a good Heli ...

Tx ... most will say 2.4ghz which is true ... something like a DX 7 or FF7 2.4ghz... I am still on 35mhz but then i got 7 models to replace Rx's for and the wife wud have my nuts lol ...

The rest has already been answered in the above posts ...

I went from CP elec heli to a 30 size nitro ... first time i took the controls i ch*t myself lol .... All that noise and smell lol .... But when ya get over ya fear its about the best feeling in the world to get that first hover .... Now to get my scale hughes out and see what that can do lol ....

[choppertastic]

I've found that once a nitro is setup correctly very little fiddling is required, only a plug change required.

Elec'ies are ok but think of your expensive lipo packs. If and when the model goes into the dirt chances are the pack is going to get damanged and need replacing. For me I would recommend nitro any day. Once the price of lipo's has come down then maybe I would consider switching.

[Disc]

I've found that once a nitro is setup correctly very little fiddling is required, only a plug change required.

Elec'ies are ok but think of your expensive lipo packs. If and when the model goes into the dirt chances are the pack is going to get damanged and need replacing. For me I would recommend nitro any day. Once the price of lipo's has come down then maybe I would consider switching.

I have to say having seen a T-rex 600e go in hard nose in that the packs do survive rather well.

No diffrence to a heli going side in and killing the muffler and engine on a nitro...

It just depends how they hit the deck.....


although Nitro is definalty worth looking at love my 600n when it behaves, which is often before I crash it

[Brewber]

Good advice Andy, thank you. It sounds obvious, sure, but still valuable to have it reiterated to prevent enthusiasm forcing a dumb buying decision!

Thanks muchly

I should also like to add that any combo deal you see in a shop is for the benefit of the shop keeper not you the buyer. Please remeber that. That is the stark reality of business.

Buy good, buy once. Buy cheap, buy twice. For your £800 you will get very good quality parts that are going to last.

[Disc]

Good advice Andy, thank you. It sounds obvious, sure, but still valuable to have it reiterated to prevent enthusiasm forcing a dumb buying decision!

Thanks muchly

Also be happy to shop around and order diffrent bits from diffrent places.

For example the T-rex 500 from leeds model shop is 259 for the carbon version with main blades and motor and esc. NO other shop comes close (most shops are 309 same version) but then you might find a better deal on servos so you might goto fast-lads for them etc...

Don't be afraid to buy from 3-8 diffrent places to get the right price either.

[Brewber]

Good point Disc, I use the same principal when building my home PCs (best prices usually seem to be either http://www.ebuyer.co.uk or http://www.overclockers.co.uk and I mix and match accordingly )

Simply T-Rex is the only place I've shopped with online so far and their service has been excellent (I think I contributed to another thread about e-tailers and got confused between Simply T-Rex and Real Raptors but...thats what I get when I rely on my poor memory).

Senile at 33, scary huh?!

Also be happy to shop around and order diffrent bits from diffrent places.

For example the T-rex 500 from leeds model shop is 259 for the carbon version with main blades and motor and esc. NO other shop comes close (most shops are 309 same version) but then you might find a better deal on servos so you might goto fast-lads for them etc...

Don't be afraid to buy from 3-8 diffrent places to get the right price either.