Balde MSR x problem

[pjos11]

I have been practicing hovering today with my new Blade MSrx and I am confused about something.

When I have the heli about 3 feet of the ground and staying steady I try to spin the heli around 360 degrees as it stays stationary in the same position. ( hope this makes sense ).

But when I move my left stick to the right ( or left ) to turn the heli. It shoots off across the room very quickly.

Any ideas?

Ps I also had my first crash so I need to get a new one of these

Paul

[SaneAdam]

The helicopter will not stay level on its own while you try and spin it around 360. You have to correct with the cyclic to keep it level. Its a fairly tricky skill to keep it level with an even piro rate. Takes practice. Lots of it. As it is a small helicopter the disc will get out of shape quickly and shoot off if you don't counteract this with cyclic

Cyclic is your right stick by the way (if you are mode 2) It banks or leans the helicopter left, right, forwards and backwards

Next time you try and do a right turn, give your rudder input first then a split second later just add a little right cyclic to lean the disc in the direction of the turn. Im not great at explaining things... lol

Once it has made the turn, you will then need to level out the disc again to stop it continuing to lean to the right, so pretty quickly after giving right cyclic, give it a dab of left to level it back out.

Its like trying to balance a marble on a sheet of glass resting on a beach ball. Its a fine art of balance dictated by the laws of physics vs the inertia and thrust of the helicopter.

[PaulJC]

The little ones wont remain stationary in a hover, i dont think even 90 degrees is possible without some drift, slow it down and correct it all the way round then build your speed up

[tomatwalden]

The only helis that will spin around their axis with no correction are beginner co-axials. Single-rotor helicopters simply cannot do that - as SaneAdam explains, to pirouette (piro) on the spot takes alot of skill as you need to correct for cyclic deviation all the way around. The complexity of this is exacerbated as the direction of the cyclic controls relative to you change as the heli spins around (ie. by the time it's 180 around and facing you, left is right, and right is left!)

Remember, in a stable hover, a heli is always leaning slightly to the right to counter-act the thrust of the tail rotor (the translating tendency I mentioned in another post) - hence the need for cyclic correction around the piro.

The only way I can do piros is to spin the heli around really quickly, then correct for deviation once the heli has returned to tail-in!

[tomatwalden]

Also remember that the forces acting upon the heli change for left or right piros - as one is going with the main rotor torque, and the other is fighting it..

[pjos11]

Kind of getting it now Although the Phoenix Sim lets me do it ! lol

[Heli_Chris]

Hi,

I am so new to this that my experience is probably not really valid, but just in case it helps, as I'm flying the same helicopter. At the moment I'm just practicing hovering and turning whilst in a hover. For me when I move the rudder control to the right I have to dial in a bit of Elevator up (backward), and when turning left I need to dial in a bit of Elevator Down (Forwards). With this and adjusting the throttle to keep it relatively level I can do a reasonably slow and smooth 90º turns in either direction and on occasions a full 360º turns. I usually have to adjust the left or right cyclic slightly when coming out of the turn.

However this seems quite different to the advice form SaneAdam, so I'm curious to know what your experience is when you manage to get it to turn without flying off at quite a rate.

Best wishes,

Chris

[pjos11]

I broke the heli but I will get the part I need tomorrow and start again May buy a few parts!

[450man]

The problem you are experiencing Paul is one of the basic differences between flying fixed-wing planes and helis.

It is difficult to explain in words... it needs diagrams... but I'll have a go.

Moving the stick to the right will tilt the rotors to the right causing the heli to accelerate to the right. It won't turn the nose to the right. All that will happen is that the heli will start to move right and if you don't stop it moving right by moving the aileron stick left to tilt the rotors left then it will continue accelerating until it hits something. Moving the stick to the right on its own is not how you turn a heli.

To turn a heli when it is in a stationary hover you just use the rudder stick (left) as you know but to turn while moving forward is a little more involved because you need to start the turn with a little bit of aileron (just a little) and that will start the heli moving to the right but then you MUST also use the left stick to turn the heli's nose to stay pointing in the direction that the heli is actually moving. This coordination takes a fair bit of practice at first and that is why you start off by stopping, turning and starting again at first. Gradually you will get a feel for how much aileron it needs to start a turn and how much rudder you need to keep the nose pointing in the direction of travel.

Having said that... at first, and probably for quite a while, you won't be turning. Practice hovering nose out and moving the heli to the right and left while keeping it pointing nose out. Then do diagonal movements nose out and circles nose out. That should keep you busy for a while!

Are you following the lesson plan on the rchelicopterfun web site? If not it is well worth the effort.

EDIT: When I say "move" the aileron stick right I think that is misleading. It should move the smallest amount and for the shortest possible time. It is almost just a gentle nudge. If you hold it in then it will almost certainly be too much. If you haven't seen this already then it is worth a read... it is titled...

"Don't touch the controls!"

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1618444

I found it very useful and after reading this suddenly things became a lot easier.

[royotr]

Balde MSR x problem

This is a well documented " problem " with the MSRX on numerous forums ie RcGroups & Helifreak.

Some people use mixers, rudder & elev, rudder & ail.

I've found the most effective method for me is to trim the heli to almost hands free hover using the swashplate pushrods in non- heading hold( ie 3 or 4 clicks rudder trim) all other Tx trims at centre ie 0%. Even so it won't fly like a simulator model, I quickly realised that it has to be flown like some helis I had years ago, constant observation and constant correction.

[cjcj1949]

I did mention this. It isn't just the normal effect due to the horizontal force from the rotor not being in the "literally right" direction when you yaw the heli. There is much discussion in other forums. It is not too bad if you do things slowly which most beginners would do. Only the 130 seems to fly properly like a 450. The nano and the mcpx have their supporters. Phoenix is very poor on the smaller helis, but useful.

[pjos11]

Thanks guys for your very detailed advise. I have a large Kitchen but I now know that the heli does not like the legs of the table and chairs. I may have to move outside

Also on the Phoenix Sim it does not have the model for Blade Msrx or the 120Sr do these get upgraded from time to time?

Paul

[tomatwalden]

The 120SR is available for the Sim, but not sure about the msrx. The mcpx certainly is though.

Turn on automatic updates in the sim, or download from the website.

T

[450man]

To be honest, the micro helis are not very realistic in Phoenix. You can adjust the settings to make it more like the real thing but far better really is to practice on a bigger heli on the sim. Something like the Trex 450 behaves much more like what you are working towards. It really doesn't matter that it isn't the same model because all you are doing is training your hand/eye coordination and getting used to reacting the correct way and that is pretty much the same regardless of heli model.

[cjcj1949]

When you go outside allow for the wind and trees. Helis like flying into trees. The wind low down is much slower than further up. If you really want to go outside think about a 450 or bigger. It seems less windy in the Winter than the Summer now. It is also often calm just before it gets dark. Professional lessons are not a bad investment either.