Not another flybar vs FBL thread!

[Reality Bites]

Hi all

I don't want to start another debate on which is best, but, could someone detail the pros and cons to each system? I can only see that the FBL systems are just and electronic version of a fb system? I could be way off, hence the question

Again, sorry if this is a noob'd question and not meaning to start a debate on the best one, just wanted to know the differences.

[vinny155]

fbl is easier to fly as there is not much to correct,its a case of point and go,less parts to fix also when you lose your fight with gravity,thats my take on it anyway

[swale]

fbl is easier to fly as there is not much to correct,its a case of point and go,less parts to fix also when you lose your fight with gravity,thats my take on it anyway

Assuming its a decent flybarless unit and set correctly!!!

In addition heli wont pitch up at high speed and is also more wind resistant/easier to fly in winds.

This info must be so easy to find with google!

[Reality Bites]

Assuming its a decent flybarless unit and set correctly!!!

In addition heli wont pitch up at high speed and is also more wind resistant/easier to fly in winds.

This info must be so easy to find with google!

Hi,

You're probably right but every thread of information turned into a debate. I'm trying to understand the differences in technologies rather than people's views of which is best.

[DaveMac]

You can concentrate on making heli do what you want and not correcting all the time. Little bit more power as there is less drag. Head also looks a lot cleaner.

I can't think of any major cons for me. You can tweak them as much as you want for that last bit of performance but for most of us that's not needed.

[vinny155]

Assuming its a decent flybarless unit and set correctly!!!

In addition heli wont pitch up at high speed and is also more wind resistant/easier to fly in winds.

This info must be so easy to find with google!

well yesand at the risk of starting another debate i will say if you go fbl,get a V-Bar

[cjcj1949]

Flybarless is more complicated in a way and less in another. A heli is basically unstable and we need some help to fly it. The traditional way to do it is to use a flybar as a sort of balancing pole to provide mechanical feedback that makes it possible for a human to fly a heli. We can make the heli easier to fly by putting weights on the flybar. A flybar system is electronically simpler but more mechanically complex than a flybarless system. The complexity is in the levers that connect the flybar to the rotor blades. A flybarless system using gyros to sense the way the heli is being moved and this information is fed to a computer that uses servos directly connected to the rotors to make the heli do what the pilot wants. This is mechanically simpler but requires a compter and software that works and usually better servos than a flybarred system. It is possible that analogue servos may work reasonably well but most people use analogue. The flybar uses energy as it is turns the heli and it is said that flybarless systems will fly longer than flybarred systems. A flybarless head is more survivable than a flybarred head, but flybarless heads don't seem to get damaged that much anyway (in my experience). Main shafts, feathering shafts servo geartrains, rotor blades and the flybar rod itself tend to take most damage but the flybar rod is cheap. Judging by the number of people moving from flybar to flybarless and the lack of people going the other way, flybarless seems to be the way to go, and will only get better and cheaper. Before long the onboard computer will check all pilot control input and only allow the heli to behave in an approved and safe manner....perhaps.

[Reality Bites]

Flybarless is more complicated in a way and less in another. A heli is basically unstable and we need some help to fly it. The traditional way to do it is to use a flybar as a sort of balancing pole to provide mechanical feedback that makes it possible for a human to fly a heli. We can make the heli easier to fly by putting weights on the flybar. A flybar system is electronically simpler but more mechanically complex than a flybarless system. The complexity is in the levers that connect the flybar to the rotor blades. A flybarless system using gyros to sense the way the heli is being moved and this information is fed to a computer that uses servos directly connected to the rotors to make the heli do what the pilot wants. This is mechanically simpler but requires a compter and software that works and usually better servos than a flybarred system. It is possible that analogue servos may work reasonably well but most people use analogue. The flybar uses energy as it is turns the heli and it is said that flybarless systems will fly longer than flybarred systems. A flybarless head is more survivable than a flybarred head, but flybarless heads don't seem to get damaged that much anyway (in my experience). Main shafts, feathering shafts servo geartrains, rotor blades and the flybar rod itself tend to take most damage but the flybar rod is cheap. Judging by the number of people moving from flybar to flybarless and the lack of people going the other way, flybarless seems to be the way to go, and will only get better and cheaper. Before long the onboard computer will check all pilot control input and only allow the heli to behave in an approved and safe manner....perhaps.

Thank for your time in making that response, clears it up for me.

[p4ddy]

You can concentrate on making heli do what you want and not correcting all the time.

so it's easier to fly therefore your all f00k1n cheating!!! FLYBARRED FOR LIFE!!!!

[Randall]

FBL is defo smoother, tracks much better and yes i would say easier to hover, buts its different. For me i think i willtry a vbar next the beastx just has never felt as locked in as my old FB heli. But its certainly smoother and handles wind much better

[vinny155]

so it's easier to fly therefore your all f00k1n cheating!!! FLYBARRED FOR LIFE!!!!

yep and loving it

[Steve]

When something goes wrong with the mechanics on a flybarred head, you usually have quite a good chance of getting the heli down in one piece. If you loose a ball link say on the head then it will become mushy to fly, but often is still controllable to the point where you can get it home.

When something lets go on a flybarless machine, the fbl controller tries its best to compensate with what's left, often to the point of self-destruction! It can try so hard to keep it's given attitude that the heli rips itself apart in flight.

Just a visual observation of the two systems.

I'm currently testing and setting up my first fbl system after many years of flying and quite liking it. But I've always been a head-twiddler in the past with flybars, always trying different adjustments and settings, and now I'm just doing the same thing and learning all over again with the fbl controller. It's not the same, but there's just as much adjustment if you want it with fbl, if not more, depending on which system you get of course.

[jwatts007]

The best way too find out the pros and cons is to try both, if you are learning do it on a FB model then try FBL.......

[Gixxer]

so it's easier to fly therefore your all f00k1n cheating!!! FLYBARRED FOR LIFE!!!!

Disconnect your tail servo from the gyro, plug it straight into the receiver and go out and fly your heli... then you can come back with the same statement and it won't be at all hypocritical... and while you're at it, remove the flybar for shits and giggles

I love my flybarred helis... I love my flybarless ones equally as much, and I'm sure that when I do eventually get a better flybarless system, I'll probably prefer the flybarless setup.

I see nothing wrong with using electronic aids to to make flying easier. At the end of the day, they're only doing the same job as a flybar, but hopefully a little better.

[electricsceadu]

a lot has already been covered but i will clear a couple of points up
you can fly a heli without a flybar and without an electronic fbl unit
is it easy....... no
set up correctly it will fly and fly well but harder work than with a flybar or electronic fbl unit
the same goes for a tail gyro but without a tail gyro is even harder than no fbl unit on a fbl heli
mix the both and you are very brave or stupid
or started flying heli's in the early days


flybar
pro's
simple to follow the instruction manual to build and fly out of the box
can be mechanicaly altered to suit the pilots taste
holds a stable hover when set up well
will fly ok even when set up poorly
altering temperatures will not effect the system

cons
less power to the head due to more drag
thus reducing available engine power
more parts to replace in a crash
more easily damaged in transport ie bent flybar




fbl
pros
less parts required thus cheaper
less to replace in a crash
less drag in the head compared to a flybar set up
more availible engine power (due to less drag)
less to set up mechanicaly
very adjustable set up

cons
harder on servos
requires to be set up well to work as intended
varying temperatures can effect the control unit
require a good understanding of a rotorhead to correct any flying faults
and this is why a begginer will struggle with a fbl unit as he/she will not understand what the heli is doing and how to correct it
set up can be harder than a flybared head
some units require a pc or plug in programing board to make adjustments



i fly all three ways
flybared
fbl without electronics
and fbl with electronics


with fbl with the electronics i set the heli up perfectly mechanicaly without the fbl unit fitted and then fit the fbl unit
i use zero trim or sum trim on my fbl heli's with electronic units
and i have no problems with them