Nose-in learning

[spike]

Any tips whilst trying to learn to hover / fly nose-in. Tail-in I'm fine. Side-on I'm ok. Nose-in it all goes pear v. quickly? I'm finding this really really hard.

[warboysastro]

Each has their own way from "imagine being in it" to fly the nose and just think laterally, fly the tail etc. No right or wrong way I guess - just keep practicing until it becomes intuitive. That's where the sims are worth their weight in LiPos.

Cheers - Rob

[spike]

Thanks Rob. I used to race RC cars quite seriously when I was a teenager (so was used to operating the model in the 3rd person), but helis are a different ball game! There is just no room for error. A one second 'mind-blank' and the rotor is ploughing up the field.

What do you mean by flying the tail?

[robgt]

I found that hovering the heli in front of me (at a comfortable distance) then while in the hover, bringing it nose in and slowly climbing helped me.
Knowing that the heli was going up (not down) was the settling factor for me
If you raise it slowly enough, you can get a feel for the controls in small bursts and it soon becomes easy.

Cheers,
Rob

[warboysastro]

What do you mean by flying the tail?

Convention has it that when flying heli's, you always watch the nose/canopy.

However, some do find it easier in certain orientations (mainly inverted) but also nose in, to 'fly the tail' ie. make stick movements based on what the tail is doing rather than the nose. I guess it only translates to one movement that matches the stick (tail) the lateral cyclic you still have to do a bit of mental gymnastics!

For example, hovering inverted, I'll fly the tail and stick under the high blade blade to hold a hover tail in, and under the low blade nose in, inverted.

Everyone has their own way... Just practice really... it's the only answer

Cheers - Rob.

[spike]

Thanks. I guess I need to do some more practice on the sim. I've developed a bad habit of getting frustrated whilst trying to learn nose-in and reverting back to tail-in. I guess I just need to keep with it, although it is hard as I have learned to do rolls, loops and inverted with tail-in.

Do you imaging yourself 'in the heli' ie the first person, or does practise just train the responses?

[robgt]

Do you imaging yourself 'in the heli' ie the first person

Not me, no.
Just lots of practise
Cheers,
Rob

[Janek]

One way to remind yourself of the necessary nose in stick movements is to imagine the TX stick as a support prop.

If you need to stop the rotor disk tilting to the left, move the TX stick to "support" the left, i.e. move it left, if you need to stop the rotor disk tilting towards you, move the stick to "support" the front of the disk, i.e. move the TX stick towards yourself. . . . . . it's a mind fook, but you'll get over it with practice. . . . promise

[warboysastro]

I'm going to sound like a right idiot now (!) but try talking to yourself as you fly. If the heli's port side goes low nose in, say to yourself (quietly!) "ok, some right stick" and so on.

I still do that flying fixed wing, landing approaches etc. Better to talk to yourself and get it right than trash a model through stick errors.

Also, practice on the sim an axis at a time using the training options. Try with the lateral cyclic only first as that's generally the more mind-confusing of the two. The fore/aft doesn't seem as bad. Try watching the tail whilst you fly the rudder and see if you're more comfortable 'flying the tail' nose in or still watch the nose and reverse the rudder stick movements. Purists say always fly the nose, but whatever works for you...

Cheers - Rob

[Janek]

Rob, can you come over here and clean up my PC, it got coffee all over it

[spike]

Yes it is the lateral cyclic I'm finding the hardest in nose-in. yep, practice makes perfect! Damn no short cut to good old hard work.

It a bit like learning to ride a motorcycle for the first time ie left hand clutch and push grip to turn left (at high speed turn handlbars to the right to turn left, at slow speed turn to the left), right hand front-brake and push grip to turn right and throttle control, left foot push-down to go down a gear, pull-up with the toes to go up a gear, right foot rear-brake, rear break (right foot) to tighten a turn in a corner, front brake to straighten a turn in a corner, rear brake if braking downhill to balance the bike and stop the weight transferring to the front. etc etc. The when it is wet, forget all that and just use the front brake, or is it the rear to avoide a high-side!

[Made2Fade]

See last months Model Helicopter World Magazine... it has a very good way of starting to learn nose in. Its exactly the same way i taught myself.
Lee

[jamiem]

i started by being comfortable in a side on hover, then gradually turned it more and more nose-in. one day it will just click!

im going through it all again at the moment, ive taught myself nose-in inverted, but im struggling big time with tail-in inverted!

stick time is the answer, theres no substitute...

[warboysastro]

It a bit like learning to ride a motorcycle for the first time ie left hand clutch and push grip to turn left (at high speed turn handlbars to the right to turn left, at slow speed turn to the left)...

Ah - someone else who has disovered the merits of countersteering. Funny how even seasoned bikers aren't aware the the gyroscopic countersteering issue. Some even think you're pulling their leg when you tell them. I use this countersteering technique every morning to slalom round a pair of closely spaced grid covers on a bend on the SV! Pass one grid on my left, quick stab on the left bar (turning the bars right) and oh what's this - the bike turns left!

High sides are caused by rear tyre skidding then suddenly regaining grip whilst on the side of the tyre and wanting to right itself, so no back brake lockups during turns, please! Recipe for disaster. I hardly ever use any brake at all in turns, or if you really must, just feather the rear. Large amounts of front will just stand the bike up and throw you off too.

Also, the biggest steering tip that actually works, is look where you want to go! Works every time.

As for nose in hover, practice makes perfect.

Cheers - Rob.

PS. If you can ride a bike well, a heli is well within anyones capabilities! In fact, I remember Pedro de la Rosa (F1 racer) was a keen model heli pilot. Ayrton Senna flew too, to competition standard Also I believe Jarno Trulli flies.

[kevinh]

so does Rocket Ron Haslam (i think thats his name the bike racer)