idle up!

[porkus]

so ive been hovering in "normal mode" as its called by most. but on phoenix i always run idle up but what i would like to know is, is it fine to hover in idle up? does idle up being at max rpm make a difference on stability?

also what simulation speed do people run in phoenix as at 100% everything seems abit slow? when flying my heli in real life everything seems to happen so much faster!!! or is this cos im like a giddy little girl and shaking like a sh**ting dog?

[davie]

all depends on what head speed you run on normal and what pitch curves ect in in normal mode does it hover at 3/4 stick if not it will jump when you switch your curves have got to be linear , if you hover at midd stick in normal it wont hover at midd stick in idle up as midd stick is 0 pitch so you will have to have linear curves or the heli will drop when you switch up

[tiddler]

so ive been hovering in "normal mode" as its called by most. but on phoenix i always run idle up but what i would like to know is, is it fine to hover in idle up? does idle up being at max rpm make a difference on stability?

Hovering in idle up is fine and the higher head speed does two things...
1) Makes the heli slightly more stable.
2) Reduces flight duration very slightly.

also what simulation speed do people run in phoenix as at 100% everything seems abit slow? when flying my heli in real life everything seems to happen so much faster!!!

I have mine set at 100%. Seems OK to me.

or is this cos im like a giddy little girl and shaking like a sh**ting dog?

Yes

[porkus]

all depends on what head speed you run on normal and what pitch curves ect in in normal mode does it hover at 3/4 stick if not it will jump when you switch your curves have got to be linear , if you hover at midd stick in normal it wont hover at midd stick in idle up as midd stick is 0 pitch so you will have to have linear curves or the heli will drop when you switch up

on my normal mode i have it set to -2 degrees on lowest left stick (so i know it aint gonna go flying off when i start to give some input). 0 at mid stick and then linear from mid to highest to 10/11 cant quite remember what i set it at.

also whats the best way to enter idle up? mid stick then flick it on? or flick it on on start up? i have slow start set on align esc so i assume it wont just miraculously spin to 3000rpm straight away!!!

[tiddler]

on my normal mode i have it set to -2 degrees on lowest left stick (so i know it aint gonna go flying off when i start to give some input). 0 at mid stick and then linear from mid to highest to 10/11 cant quite remember what i set it at.

also whats the best way to enter idle up? mid stick then flick it on? or flick it on on start up? i have slow start set on align esc so i assume it wont just miraculously spin to 3000rpm straight away!!!

I have my 450 normal throttle curve set to 100% from mid stick up and use it just to spool up. I then flick into idle up (100% flat) before take off.

[Vic.P]

on my normal mode i have it set to -2 degrees on lowest left stick (so i know it aint gonna go flying off when i start to give some input). 0 at mid stick and then linear from mid to highest to 10/11 cant quite remember what i set it at.

also whats the best way to enter idle up? mid stick then flick it on? or flick it on on start up? i have slow start set on align esc so i assume it wont just miraculously spin to 3000rpm straight away!!!

Something in your normal curve dosen't look right to me, at mid stick you should have around +4 to +5 degrees and then about +6.5 to +7 degrees at 3/4 stick and this is about where the transition to idle should be.

For example, here are the curves for normal and idle1 on my Trex 600e.

Normal

pitch: -2, +3, +5, +7, +9
Throttle: 0, 40, 70, 87, 100

Idle 1:

pitch: -9, -5, 0, +5, +9
Throttle: 100, 95, 90, 95, 100

The two figures in red are the transition points from normal to idle when the flight mode switch is thrown during flight and although they are not the same pitch values, the extra head speed in idle 1 compensates for slightly less pitch which makes the transition into idle and back pretty smooth.

You can of course start in idle1 or 2.
Power up as usual and then switch the HOLD switch, step away from the heli and switch the flight mode switch to Idle1 or 2 (nothing will or should happen until you release the HOLD switch) then move the stick to mid stick and release the HOLD and it will spool up in idle1 or 2.
After landing, switch the HOLD again and then move the stick to bottom stick to slow the rotor quicker if you want, switch out of idle to Normal leaving the HOLD on and the power off normaly.
Oh and you should most definately have soft start set in the esc if you are starting in idle otherwise it will pirouette with torque.

[porkus]

Something in your normal curve dosen't look right to me, at mid stick you should have around +4 to +5 degrees and then about +6.5 to +7 degrees at 3/4 stick and this is about where the transition to idle should be.

i have it at minus below mid stick so i mentally and physically know that it aint gonna take off till after mid stick, ive not flown enough nor have enough experience to have looked at where the throttle is as its just about to lift off. im paying attention to the bird and what that is doing lol. but in normal i have a total linear throttle curve, total flat in idle at 100% with a linear pitch curve.

normal i thought is how people like and idle is how it has to be for the 3d stuff?

[Vic.P]

i have it at minus below mid stick so i mentally and physically know that it aint gonna take off till after mid stick, ive not flown enough nor have enough experience to have looked at where the throttle is as its just about to lift off. im paying attention to the bird and what that is doing lol. but in normal i have a total linear throttle curve, total flat in idle at 100% with a linear pitch curve.

normal i thought is how people like and idle is how it has to be for the 3d stuff?

Normal consists of hover pitch and throttle curves and generaly the throttle works from zero at bottom stick through to 100 at top stick with a bias at mid stick of 70ish. The idea of this normal curve is that it runs at a slower head speed for more gentle flying and is generaly the beginners or scale fliers choice.
Even with a curve like the one i posted for normal above you won't have to worry about it leaping into the air, it will not take off until it's above mid stick because the throttle is not yet high enough to generate lift at the 5 degree mid stick pitch and will only lift off when throttle and pitch are between 1/2 and 3/4 stick.
Idle curves as you say are for 3D giving mid stick 0 pitch and anywhere between 75% to 100% throttle mid stick depending on whether you want it maxed out with a flat 100% or a V curve with slightly reduced mid stick throttle.
Bear in mind that you generaly have two idle curves so in my case, i use the one above for idle 1 and i have a flat 100% throttle for idle 2.

[tiddler]

Unless your only going to fly in normal mode Its better to have 0 degrees at mid stick for both your pitch curves.
Normal curve can have a minimum of around -2ish below mid stick, but both curves should ideally match (or at least be very similar) when going above mid stick.

[porkus]

vic i thank and praise you, it has now just clicked and i understand exactly what you are on about cheers mate. ill have a blast with the one you posted at the weekend and tweek it slightly if neccessary. i only have one idle up as i only have a dx6i lol but i do know what you mean now.

just one thing tho what does having the v shaped throttle curve do/change?

[Vic.P]

vic i thank and praise you, it has now just clicked and i understand exactly what you are on about cheers mate. ill have a blast with the one you posted at the weekend and tweek it slightly if neccessary. i only have one idle up as i only have a dx6i lol but i do know what you mean now.

just one thing tho what does having the v shaped throttle curve do/change?

The idle1 throttle curve above is a V curve where the throttle goes from 100 to 90 and back up to 100 reading left to right on a curve graph it describes a V.
The reason for it is that it places less load on your battery at mid stick than a 100% linear throttle curve giving slightly longer flight times.

[Vic.P]

Unless your only going to fly in normal mode Its better to have 0 degrees at mid stick for both your pitch curves.
Normal curve can have a minimum of around -2ish below mid stick, but both curves should ideally match (or at least be very similar) when going above mid stick.

I suppose you could in fact set up both curves as two idle curves and use Hold at start up given that the DX6i only has one idle curve but for a beginner it's best to start with a normal normal curve
It's how you tune the normal curve to the idle curve that counts though. If you were to switch to idle in flight then ideally the two pitches should be the same or thereabouts to avoid any sudden loss or gain in hight but because of the increased head speed when switching to idle and the reduction when switching back to normal it actualy needs slightly less pitch in idle and slightly more in normal.
If for instance the heli climbs slightly when switching to idle then i would dial in slightly more pitch or throttle at that point on the normal curve to balance it out and vice versa so it should be possible to get a smooth transition from normal to idle and back at between the 1/2 and 3/4 stick position.

[lgray88]

i keep both my curves the same just the only diffence being i keep a 100% flat curve for throttle on idle up, works for me on phoenix. I couldnt get used too have the differnce pitch curves as they feel difrent on the positive side of the stick in each mode, cant explain it properly but i hope you know what i mean.

[Farmer Giles]

Some good info above. I have the curves set as below on my Trex 500.

Norm Throttle : 0 60 100 100 100
Norm pitch : 0 25 50 75 100

Idle 1 Throttle : 100 100 100 100 100
Idle 1 Pitch : 0 25 50 75 100

so with my zero pitch at mid stick I can spool up to max head speed in normal mode with zero pitch, flick to IU and then all my flying is in IU mode.

IMO there's no real need for a V curve for electric powered helis, but there may be a slight benfit to flight times as stated above with a shallow V curve.. I've not tried it myself TBH..

One last thing, no-ones mentioned it but make sure your pitch curve is set the same in the hold position if you have that option in your TX.

HTH..