RC heli photography beginners questions

[Diliff]

Hi guys,

I guess this may be one of the more unusual beginners questions, but I am a semi-professional photographer and am interested in strapping a digital SLR camera to a RC helicopter (mainly as an amateur hobby, although I would like to perhaps take some professional shots at some point in the future too).

I completely understand that they take quite a bit of practice to master and they're expensive toys if you make a mistake (even more so with an expensive camera and lens attached), so I assume your advice would be to become familiar with a smaller, cheaper RC heli first. I will take that on board.

But my real question is what sort of kit (you can be as specific as you want) would I need to make it work? Eg what size heli, recommended kts, etc. I assume I may need a good gyro stabiliser for both the camera mount and also for the helicopter itself as this heli would not be used for any serious manoeuvres or 3D flying, just getting the into position and hovering with as much stability as possible. I would imagine that having a big heli and a heavy camera underneath would actually HELP with the stability of the helicopter, rather than hinder it.

I'm also assuming that I would go down the electric route, as I have read that they tend to be lower maintenance (although you would be more limited in your flying times). As I said, I'm not about to go out and spend £££'s on a big expensive one only to crash it immediately, but I wanted to get an idea of what sort of equipment I would need to make it work, and roughly how much money i'd be looking at, to get there. The other thing that I am unsure of is how the camera would be triggered remotely. I'd be using a Canon DSLR, and I'm not sure if there is any off-the-shelf kit that would allow you to trigger the shutter electronically.

Any other advice would be great too though. Anything at all.

Thanks,
Dave

[acwman]

A dedicated camera ship such as the Bergen Observer coudl start you off... At least gives you an idea of price of the helicopter that maybe required.

Other alternatives is that you buy a mounting system for your camera for an existing helicopter. With an SLR you're probably looking for a 60/90 size heli.

You can get someone else to operate the camera while the pilot takes care of flying the heli.

..sorry can't help you anymore.

[Disc]

Learn to fly a 50 nitro 1st

then you want a big Gasser 23cc or 26cc petrol engine... Century Condor has some lifting power...

and of course this will do the job Welcome to Bergen R/C - /Observer

[cupracing]

I imagine a co pilot would be neccessary such as helicommand for ultimate stability?

[Diliff]

Would a gas powered heli really be necessary? From what I've seen and heard of nitro/gas engined RC helicopters, they're pretty noisy, and I'd prefer it to be more low-key (and low maintenance). Are electrics not powerful enough to lift and manoeuvre with a DSLR and lens attached (probably 1-1.5kg plus mount I suppose)?

Also, I assumed I wouldn't need a co-pilot to take the photos. I would imagine that a button on the controls would be enough, although admittedly it would largely depend how well I could control it. :-)

[murph]

Have a look here

Macsgrafs Aerial photography

I'm sure they can steer you in the right direction

I think the girl who runs this uses an electric Trex 600. Have a look for Kirsty Carnage on RCMF.co.uk, she has pics of her camera heli on there, I'm sure she would offer any advce you need

Does your camera have an IR shutter facility? If so have a look here:

Gentles Limited: Remote Camera Control

They do different remote shutter options

[unwind-protect]

Are electrics not powerful enough to lift and manoeuvre with a DSLR and lens attached (probably 1-1.5kg plus mount I suppose)?

Also, I assumed I wouldn't need a co-pilot to take the photos. I would imagine that a button on the controls would be enough, although admittedly it would largely depend how well I could control it. :-)

Some electrics are. Electrics in many ways are superior for AP. No exhaust residue over your expensive gear, less vibration, quieter, and potentially less to go wrong.

To comfortably lift a 2kg payload you're probably looking at a 600. I've heard of one person using a 500 and a Panasonic G1, as they're smaller and lighter than a traditional SLR, but less than that all you can really lift are compact cameras.

The best systems I've seen use a video downlink that allows either the pilot or a separate photographer to frame the shots. Using a separate photographer reduces your workload a bit; also flicking switches while in flight can be a bit tricky (I'm sure it comes with practice).

The autopilots are I believe very handy. Holding a stable high hover is in itself a bit of an art, as you have precious few clues about how the helicopter is drifting, especially against a plain blue sky.

Anyhow, this is nearly all secondhand from stuff I've read. Lots of people start with a cheap compact camera slung underneath a 450, and it's certainly what I plan to try first!

[pchristy]

There are lots of outfits out there already doing this commercially, but be aware that the law is about to change quite dramatically with regards to this.

Data gathering - of any sort, and that INCLUDES aerial photography - from remotely piloted vehicles, will come under new regulations aimed at the booming RPV market.

The BMFA is aware of this, and will hopefully be in a position to issue exemption certificates for non-commercial photography from models ie hobby activities.

However, commercial operations will require a specific (and presumably expensive!) license, and will almost certainly have a whole host of other restrictions placed on it (like NOT using 35 MHz!).

It has all come about because of the interest in UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) at European and World level. The BMFA - along with other modelling organisations - has been working desperately hard behind the scenes, to draw a distinction between commercial / military activity, and model / hobby activity.

This appears to have been largely successful, but we won't know for sure until the final regulations are issued. In the meantime, be very wary of setting up a commercial activity based on hobby assumptions! It ain't gonna stay that way!

Cheers,

[Delta7]

Here we go again.....another area for our wonderful government to tax us on for Revenue generation and you can be certain it's for no other reason!

[Stuart]

Digital SLR don't work in this environment unless you can get one with an a/v output. We had a two canons and the digital SLR didn't work so we opted for the other one.

Stuart Album - RcHeliaddict Members Gallery

We had a 2.4ghz downlink to view all images during flight and the misses took all the pics - we could take pics all day long from any angle but the video was another story.

We opted to convert to electric and now just need to finalise the changes...if I can find the time - lol

[pchristy]

Here we go again.....another area for our wonderful government to tax us on for Revenue generation and you can be certain it's for no other reason!

Not really! There was a grave danger of us being regarded in the same light as the "Reapers" and whatever currently being used in Afghanistan!!!

Remember that Saddam Hussein's drone used commercial radio and - from the looks of the pictures - Multiplex servos!!!

Whatever happens, we have to keep the "hobby" aspect separate from the commercial and military aspects! Their budgets are MUCH bigger than ours, and if we get mixed up with them....well, would YOU fancy paying commercial rates for the bandwidth we currently enjoy? No, I thought not!

The BMFA have done a sterling job in keeping OUR interests separate from the commercial / military applications. They should be applauded for this!

--
Pete

[Diliff]

Thanks for all who responded previously. I took it all on board and also took a break from the planning/thinking over Christmas, but I'm starting to think about it again. :-)

I think I've settled on a T-Rex 600 as I've been reading various forums where people have successfully used one to launch a DSLR into the air and get it back in one piece! I know I'm getting ahead of myself but there are so many factors to consider before I even know for sure that it's viable. Like batteries. If I understand correctly, in order to get a decent flight time (let's say 10 minutes +), I assume I'd have to carry multiple batteries which would weigh down the heli further. Would 2 x 4400mAh batteries in parallel be enough, or would I have to get more? I read one post that said that a t-rex 600 would only get about 5 mins flying time from one 4400mAh battery, does that sound about right? I'd really want more time than that.

And what (roughly speaking) would the T-Rex 600 be capable of carrying? I know I'm asking fairly specific questions, but I just want to know what would be needed so that I know it could actually work the way I'd want it to.

Also, another newbie question, but how are the radio receivers on the heli powered (and other gizmos like a video transmitter)? If the T-Rex has 22.2v (which seems to be the standard voltage for the 600), and the receivers need a lower voltage (6-10v judging by the specs on a couple I've looked at), what do you do about that? Do they need their own separate batteries at the right voltage? Or can the main battery's power be stepped down somehow? I have a basic understanding of electronics, but my knowledge is pretty limited really, and none of the sites summarise this sort of info. I guess I'd need to speak to someone in a store and ask these questions, but I'm still trying to get my head around it first.

Thanks in advance if anyone has any answers!

[Mart61]

My gut feel on this one? Don't do it!

If you were a master at flying a heli already then perhaps, and just perhaps, you may wanna consider it.

I'm not gonna claim to be the fastest learner here. In fact I'm probably one of the slower learners. However I have been flying CP helis for around 8 months now and am only just starting to fly what is called lazy 8s at around 5 feet from the ground. And, during this time, I've had a couple of minor "heavy landings" and one crash which would have wrecked any camera that may have been on board.

Now you may be a fast learner. But you might not be. As such, if I were you, I'd allow at least a year of flying before strapping a camera onto your heli.

Furthermore, what kind of Canon will you be using and what glass will you put on the front of it? It's just that my Nikon D300 with a 17-55mm f/2.8 weighs not far short of 2Kg without a battery. I'm not sure a T-rex 600 would handle this payload which, if strapped to the front of the heli, would need a similar weight strapped to the back to maintain the CofG.

Sorry to put a negative slant on your idea. Just playing devil's advocate.

[Diliff]

My gut feel on this one? Don't do it!

If you were a master at flying a heli already then perhaps, and just perhaps, you may wanna consider it.

I'm not gonna claim to be the fastest learner here. In fact I'm probably one of the slower learners. However I have been flying CP helis for around 8 months now and am only just starting to fly what is called lazy 8s at around 5 feet from the ground. And, during this time, I've had a couple of minor "heavy landings" and one crash which would have wrecked any camera that may have been on board.

Now you may be a fast learner. But you might not be. As such, if I were you, I'd allow at least a year of flying before strapping a camera onto your heli.

Furthermore, what kind of Canon will you be using and what glass will you put on the front of it? It's just that my Nikon D300 with a 17-55mm f/2.8 weighs not far short of 2Kg without a battery. I'm not sure a T-rex 600 would handle this payload which, if strapped to the front of the heli, would need a similar weight strapped to the back to maintain the CofG.

Sorry to put a negative slant on your idea. Just playing devil's advocate.

No, fair enough. I'm actually not planning to strap the camera on immediately. I fully plan to play with a smaller heli first, or at least fly the 600 prior to mounting the camera onto it! And I definitely won't be doing any sophisticated maneouvres anyway.

I was thinking of a Canon 5D which I already have (or even a cheap entry level Canon DSLR like the 450D) coupled to a fairly lightweight, cheap prime lens like a 24mm f/2.8. That would be a total of 1.1kg or 800 grams depending on which camera I chose. Not even close to 2kg. And I've heard of people even using the T-rex 500 to lift a DSLR. Not sure how well, but hey, it's possible apparently. :-)

But I suppose that doesn't take into account the camera mount (which could easily be another kg, I suppose. Which is why I want to know what is a realistic weight to carry on the 600. And how much the extra weight would affect the flying time.

[Mart61]

Fair comment - just thought I'd make you aware that, to achieve your goals, you may be in it for the "long haul".

I'm not expert enough to know what payload the 600 will carry. Others here may know tho.

Good luck with your quest.