Aerobatics.......

[Disc]

Hi
Okay Wenseday hoping to get some stick time with the raptor now
its running well. engine appears have plently of power and
my idle up 1 is set for more head speed through all areas.

I am getting to the stage where I fly circuts okay and figure 8's.

I can fly fast then go up and turn not quite a stall turn but nearly
there. So whats the next move tips etc....

Is the actually stall turn like it is with Planes for example?

Also the Loop if I fly flat out then pull back on the cyclic to send the heli
up sharpish and hold for the loop as you do with planes but of course
not power back like you do with planes at the 1/3 point with planes.

Whats the best way to come out of the loop?

No sim so I cannot test before I do this so any advice is very welcome.

I only have -2 -3 on my neg pitch and +8-9ish.


Shift patterns a bugger but then I get days off in the week and if the
weather holds it all pays off

[Ade_Law]

Hi disk, good to hear you are moving on and up! Its so liberating!

Before you go any further you need to do at least one thing,

Change your pitch curve. Start by going to -6, 1.5, 9

You will need to reset your throttle curve obviously. The greater pitch range will give you more control this is an intermediate step to gently ease you into:

-9, 0, 9

You need this pitch curve to fly inverted safely. If you want to move on beyond loops and stall turns you are going to need to use this pitch curve. If you switch to this curve any later than now you are going to have to relearn how to do loops and stall turns.

notice its not a curve its a straight line and symmetrical either size of zero. This will mean the model will fly the same inverted as it does the right way up.

Now the use of different pitch ranges in different flight modes is something of a bone of contention. Most of the 3d boys fly the same curve in all modes. Some fly a smaller range in normal mode to smooth the hover out.

Personally I don't fly in normal mode at all, I just use it for spool up then switch into either Idle up 1 or 2, They both have the full -9/0/9 pitch range (well... 9ish, depends on the model and how much power it has) The difference is that idle 1 has a very slow head speed and idle up 2 is up around 1900-2000 depending on the heli.

I use a governor (CSM rev-lock) to regulate the head speed. its a lot easier to setup and gives you one less thing to worry about.

similar thing for the gyro, get it setup great, use HH, its a lot easier in the long run.

Now... once you got that sorted. lets talk about loops and stall turns.

They are pretty similar in that the exit and entrance of both stall turns and loops are exactly the same.

Lets look at the stall turn first.

Now with a heli you dont have any direct forward propulsion So the attitude of the heli is different to the path. On the way in to the stall turn you need to get the nose down, use full collective, (watch the heli setup, too much pitch and the headspeed will drop off) You need to get the nose down far enough to maintain straight and level flight, Do a long run in, get it setup nice and straight and preferably down wind, this will help later on.

Now remember that nose down attitude and the direction of travel it gives you. Pull back slightly (less than half stick) on the elevator the nose will come up and the model will start to climb, now relax on the elevator a little, its this bit and the models momentum that gives you the vertical climb.

Now put the elevator back in until the model is pointing vertically. At some point during that final rotation due to the collective pitch you still have on the model will start to try to pull back the way it was coming. At this point you need to gently back off the collective to somewhere around zero degs pitch, this will then let the models momentum continue the vertical part of the stall turn. If you come off too much it will carry on going away from you slightly, and if you dont come off enough it will come at you.

when the speed bleeds off put some rudder in, no need to use massive amounts just a gentle turn. keep the nose down, and down touch the collective, let the model fall, then gently feed in the collective and bring the nose back to the same nose down attitude you had on the way in.

So to recap the key is that the models attitude is about 20degs nose down relative to the direction of travel. The vertical portion is partly due to cheating and using the models power to go upwards and partly due to momentum. The important timing is exactly when to back off the collective to make it go vertically and how much to back off, this depends mostly depends on wind.

Now for the loop.

As I said the entrance and exit is the same as a tall turn.

so as before but this time into wind, it makes it easier.... Nose down, full collective, pull back gently on the elevator, this time dont ease off on the elevator keep it on but not too much or you will load up the rotor. Same goes for the pitch, keep it on,

the model will climb then start coming back towards you, keep the pitch on until the model is fully inverted. This point is critical, Now due to gravity just like on a plane you need to back off on the control thats pulling you round or it will turn into a figure 9!. On a plane its the elevator on a heli its the collective. To start with just come back to about zero degrees, (mid stick) its safe but wont be the pretty.

Keep the elevator in the same place the model will start to drop around 2nd half of the loop.

When the model is pointing straight down, Just like the stall turn start feeding the pitch back in and release the elevator when you get to the same nose down attitude you started with on the way in.

It is very common for the top of the loop to be a little messy as the collective timing and quantity over the top is very important. Also for the perfect loop the elevator isnt a consistent quantity it is tuned to keep it round. Lastly its is very common to over rotate and come out pointing level or even nose up. You will loose all your forward speed very quickly in that situation. All of that will come with practise.

I think that just about covers it! I cannot stress the model setup enough it makes a massive difference get it right and the model will be a lot easier and more predictable. Governors these days are cheap and well worth the investment.

hope this helps,

Ade

[Ade_Law]

Also, the demo version of reflex can be used to play demo flights that others have recorded. you can download it from reflex-sim.de.

If you want more clarification i can do a couple of recordings for you exagerating the key moments.

Ade

[Disc]

Hi
okay thanks for the Advice.....

-9 neg hum... I have no idea to alter the raptor to do that!

time to read the manual again!

As for governors not yet.... I know of one guy at out club has
Raptor totally blinged out has the best of everything etc.

Plus a rev gov on it.. It takes down to the field 5 manuals
and fiddles for 1 hour or so gives up goes home to set it up....

Seen this several times now. Totally put me off Rev govs for life!

As for the Sim offer thankx, But it will never work on my computer
as it is a Mac.

[Ade_Law]

The setup is all about defaulting all the curves, sub trim and end points.

Turn the collective servo round so the output shaft is at the front (oposite to the manual) and put the ball on the inner hole of the collective lever.

Then with the collective stick at mid stick put the servo arm on the servo so that it sits at 90 degrees to the pushrod up to the collective lever. The ball should be 15-16mm out on the horn.

Then you adjust the length of the rod from the servo up to the collective lever so that the 2 arms that control the flybar (that sit on the little slider just above the swash plate) are horizontal.

then you adjust the length of the links that go up from the swashplate up to the mixer arms on the flybar carrier so that the mixer arms sit horizontal. make sure you compare the 2 links so they are exactly the same.

Finally. Adjust the length of the short links that go from the mixer arms on the flybar carrier down to the blade grips to give you zero pitch.

as for field fiddling? Its all about getting to know your equipment. Govs are not complex things reading and understanding the manual is all that is needed. The rev-lock can be almost completly setup on the bench at home. Only maybe needing a tweek of the gain pot at the field.

lets see, at the field today, I got the heli out of the car, gave it a quick check over flew it, flew it some more, Flew it again.

then went down the pub.

Ade

[Disc]

Hi
Er now you want me to do all that :-)

I'll look into it......

I can only fly in HH at the moment the CSM sl560 works
a treat with a standard servo.

I get my FF7 this weekend so at last I'll get Throttle cut
and hopefully the set up a bit better plus throttle hold.

I have no wish for 3D in anyway I'd rather fly sport/Scale is the
plan. Sport with the Pred Gasser when it arrives and Scale
may happen to the Raptor.

Dont get me wrong the guy that has the Raptor at our club with bling on
it and every goodie going is fine. But I show up Hover then fly pack
up go home Heli in one piece and then vist the pub with a big grin.

He shows up fiddles moans about setup goes home.....

[Ade_Law]

not a big fan of throttle cuts, its ok on the 30s but bigger engines are more likely to flood. I prefer to pinch the fuel line.

hold however is very useful.

Who mentioned 3d? :-)

a lot of people will jump on the pitch curve I just gave you as being a "3d" pitch curve.

Far from it. Its just a nice balanced pitch curve that will give you full control no matter what your attitude. it will let you put the model exactly where you want it with minimum of fuss. With the -3 curve have at the moment have you found it difficult to loose height?

the only reason to fly anything other than this is for F3C style stuff that require millimetre perfect hovering.

Ade

[Disc]

Hi
ah what happens if I move the Collective control for
intermidates and 3D?

will that do the job............

[Janek]

Disc, a word of warning about Ade's point earlier on turning the collective servo round to get a straighter throw on the link. You have to reverse the pitch channel

It's a very worthwhile change though, both my raptors have that little mod

[Disc]

Hi
Quick update as I went out today to thrash the heli about abit....

Flying for a Full tank of fuel almost now.... getting low when I come back to
land. I keep doing circuits and figure 8's.

Trying to stall turn and pulled off maybe 2 good out of 12 trys....

Been altering my throttle curve on idle up 1 for more power....

Head speed fine and seems okay but I think theres more power
in the engine for sure.

Also been doing FAST Hops.... basically go 16ft up drop heli to
3ft and power up again before it hits the ground.

My hovering and general flying is going on well but I think I need
someone with more knowledge than me on Helis sometimes....

but hey thats what this board is for