Transmitter stick technique - or am I doing it all wrong?

[Raven Morpheus]

Hey all

Silly question time. I have been scouring youtube to see if I can find some demonstrations of proper stick usage on an RC transmitter for helicopters (in particular an MCPX as it's more popular than my other heli), and so far I can't find any.

Reason I'm looking? I see so many videos where people aren't seemingly doing much and their MCPX just takes off pretty much straight up, hovers in place, almost hands off, only needing a correction or two every now and then and can be flown indoors in a very small space (I've just seen one where the guy was in what looked like a less than 4' x 4' space!) - I'd love to know why mine doesn't allow me to do that!?!

I'm thinking I've got the wrong stick technique. I tend to hold the cyclic (right stick) in a given position and I'm wondering if that, and possibly I'm also putting too much input in, is why I cannot competently get my MCPX off the ground and into a hover over one spot - should I be nudging the sticks instead?


TIA

PS I might have asked this before here (probably about my Skyartec heli), apologies if I have, but this is still bugging me.

[myxiplx]

Yup, when you first start learning to make small motions is one of the challenges. You'll find that helicopter needs regular tiny inputs to keep it in a stable hover, and large movements will have it wondering about all over the place :-)

When I first started I was advised to try making a small jab in the direction I wanted to go, and then returning the stick to the centre. Regular small jabs should give you more control than a single large movement, and with practice it will help you get used to making smaller, more precise movements.

[Grumpy]

This gets asked a lot. Most people are very surprised at just how hard flying a collective pitch heli is, and micros CP are the hardest of all.
They don't just sit there hovering on their own in the way a co-axial toy heli does. CP helis have no natural stability so they need constant correction and they need that correction in all directions at the same time. The smaller the heli the faster your responses needs to be to keep on top of the situation which is why i personally much prefer the bigger ones, my reactions just aren't sharp enough for micros.

It's not a question of how you hold the sticks, just hold them how feels most natural for you.

A fixed pitch heli might be a better option for you to get the basic control responses committed to muscle memory.

[Peteski]

I'm thinking I've got the wrong stick technique. I tend to hold the cyclic (right stick) in a given position and I'm wondering if that, and possibly I'm also putting too much input in, is why I cannot competently get my MCPX off the ground and into a hover over one spot - should I be nudging the sticks instead?

Yes, that's where you are going wrong. With CP helis any input you make on the cyclic stick needs a counter-input to stop it again and if you keep the stick in one position off centre it will continue to move even faster in that direction. So for example if you input right cyclic and then centre the stick, the heli will actually continue to move to the right until you actually input left cyclic to stop it again. Basically the cyclic stick rolls and pitches the heli and only an opposite input will bring it back to level. Any constant cyclic input in a particular direction will result in losing control as the heli will accelerate rapidly in that direction and actually roll or pitch itself into the ground!

The mCPX will hover quite nicely indoors (no wind), almost hands off - but it does need lots of very small inputs (nudges) on the cyclic to prevent it from drifting away. It will also have a tendency to drift left on lift-off due to the tail rotor thrust, so you have to counter that too with a little "nudge" of right cyclic. The heli actually hovers slightly tilted over to the right and it's quite noticeable on micros.

The best way to learn this control is on a sim and then go back to your mCPX again. Eventually it just becomes second nature and you wonder why you thought it was so hard to simply hover.

[tomatwalden]

...
Reason I'm looking? I see so many videos where people aren't seemingly doing much and their MCPX just takes off pretty much straight up, hovers in place, ...

There's your issue right there ...

The reality is that they're constantly correcting - you just don't see it. Flying CP isn't trivial - but it's not massively difficult either, it just takes practice. One thing you will find though is that something small like the mCPX needs to be a good 2-3 foot off the ground to avoid being blown all over the place by its own down-draft bouncing back off the floor. Hovering at very low level will be more difficult and need more corrections.

Also, expect left drift - no CP helicopter will take off "straight up" - they all drift left which you need to correct for with the cyclic.

[tonystevens]

Think of a marble on a tray, you pick the tray up and are trying to keep the marble in the centre. Tiny little movements of the tray will get it rolling big movements and your in a mess. I reckon it's the closest example I can give to controlling a micro Heli.
Imagine the marble is the Heli and the tray is your cyclic stick, exactly the same movements needed to keep the Heli still.

[Peteski]

Think of a marble on a tray, you pick the tray up and are trying to keep the marble in the centre. Tiny little movements of the tray will get it rolling big movements and your in a mess. I reckon it's the closest example I can give to controlling a micro Heli.

Good analogy. Or similar to balancing a stick on your hand. The longer the stick, the more stable it is too - as with size of helis. Micros are the hardest to balance, but not actually that difficult with modern FBL controllers. Just takes a lot of practice. Also helps a lot if you are using a programmable radio with control over dual rates and expo. You can use these parameters to make the cyclic stick much less sensitive.

[Bob H]

Hey all

Silly question time. I have been scouring youtube to see if I can find some demonstrations of proper stick usage on an RC transmitter for helicopters (in particular an MCPX as it's more popular than my other heli), and so far I can't find any.

Reason I'm looking? I see so many videos where people aren't seemingly doing much and their MCPX just takes off pretty much straight up, hovers in place, almost hands off, only needing a correction or two every now and then and can be flown indoors in a very small space (I've just seen one where the guy was in what looked like a less than 4' x 4' space!) - I'd love to know why mine doesn't allow me to do that!?!

I'm thinking I've got the wrong stick technique. I tend to hold the cyclic (right stick) in a given position and I'm wondering if that, and possibly I'm also putting too much input in, is why I cannot competently get my MCPX off the ground and into a hover over one spot - should I be nudging the sticks instead?


TIA

PS I might have asked this before here (probably about my Skyartec heli), apologies if I have, but this is still bugging me.

The biggest problem when trying to control a RC CCPM helicopter - or plane for that matter - is that most beginers assume that the control inputs work in the same way, say, the stearing wheel of a car works; i.e. you turn the wheel to a position that gives you the required turn rate then once the turn is completed you return the stearing wheel to the centre position to stop turning.

The controls for an aircraft don't work like that unfortunately.
With, say, a left cyclic control stick input what you're actually asking the aircraft (in this case a RC helicopter) what you're asking the model to do is spin around the fore-aft axis at a given rate and the model will keep spinning at that rate until you bring the cyclic stick back to the centre location. The further left you move the cyclic control, the faster it will spin around the fore-aft axis to the left. So, if you want the helicopter to bank left 20° or so as an exagerated example, you need to move the cyclic control to the left a small amount to get the model to spin left slowly. Once the model is at the desired angle then you bring the cyclic control back to the centre point to stop the spin. What makes the model move to the left is not the act of inputing a left cyclic control but of spinning the model around it's axis to the left for a few degrees using a small left cyclic input then stopping the spin by recentreing the cyclic then wait for the side thrust to the right move the model to the left. When the model has moved as far as you want it to go you need to spin the model around its axis to the right past vertical slightly then recentre the control so it doesn't spin any further so the rotor can now rhrust to the right and stop the left movement. Once the model is stationary in the air you make a second small left cyclic input to spin the model until it is vertical and the rotor is neither thrusting left nor right so the model doesn't move anymore. This is the same for forward, rear and right movement.

The problem is that CCPM helicopters are inherently unstable (tonysteven's analogy is close but it's more like trying to keep a load of marbles on a tray with the tray balanced on a stick which is balanced on some elses finger which you're trying to move using their other elbow) so this is a constant process of input and counter input of roll, pitch and collective commands. It takes a while and lots of practice to master and something that a sim is extremely useful for getting to grips with.

[Raven Morpheus]

Thanks guys, I thought I was doing it wrong. Might I have been better getting something like a Blade 130x, i.e. the larger the heli the less quick I need to be? (although I doubt I'd be able to use that in my living room/kitchen)

[Grumpy]

The 130X would be just as hard to fly, and also it would break more easily. Any CP micro is going to be very challenging to learn on. They all fall into the 'advanced' category as far as required skill level is concerned.

If you want something that gives you an easier time of it a fixed pitch heli such as the Blade 120S or similar would be a better bet. This is not saying that it's impossible to learn on an MCPX, it is possible but it will be frustrating experience with lots of crashing.

[myxiplx]

Nah, the mCPX is as big as you can safely fly indoors, and it's much tougher than something like the 130X. Learning on a 130 would be an exercise in frustration as you'd be replacing parts all the time. The mCPX can often get away with bouncing off stuff and just fly again :-)

[Mike Sanders]

The Blade 130 is not a large heli. It is a twitchy little blighter, in my opinion. A 700 is a large heli. It is so easy to control. It would be an ideal beginner's machine if it were not for the cost and therefore fear of crashing.

[Thor]

The problem is that CCPM helicopters are inherently unstable (tonysteven's analogy is close but it's more like trying to keep a load of marbles on a tray with the tray balanced on a stick which is balanced on some elses finger which you're trying to move using their other elbow) so this is a constant process of input and counter input of roll, pitch and collective commands. It takes a while and lots of practice to master and something that a sim is extremely useful for getting to grips with.

I like this analogy. More accurate than the marble on a tray and only (possibly) very slightly exaggerated. In my opinion, of course.

I took the liberty of highlighting what I believe to be the most important and also the most often underestimated part of learning to fly a CP heli: lots and lots of practice. Be prepared to work hard for it. It may sometimes seem to take ages, but even for a forty-something "old" fart like me it does finally click. Then you can confidently move on to the next maneuver knowing that it may be just as difficult to learn as the last one was. Successfully conquering each step is extremely rewarding and exhilarating - hence the addiction

Be patient and stick with it. Once you reach the point where you are moderately competent just at hovering tail-in, I expect you'll already be hooked.

[Raven Morpheus]

Thanks for the advice guys. Today I did some "flying" with the MCPX and after tweaking my DX6i settings (80% throttle all the way on the "curve", positions 1-3 on the pitch curve set to 50% and then the last two 75% and 80%) and the expo settings at 100%/+10, I actually managed to, using idle up mode only, get the heli to take off and hover fairly well.

Although I still need practice as it gets away from me and I can't recover and end up crashing. Need more room to avoid that but once I can work out how to transition from a hover to forward flight back to a hover again I'm sure I'll be fine.

Getting there though, I've never flown an RC helicopter, the MCPX is my 1st RC heli (aside from a Skyartec Nano Wasp CPX which I also managed to fly today, until the mainframe cracked where the tail boom fits - the 2nd mainframe that's broke in exactly the same place!) and I've only been flying it for a few hours (over a few weeks) now but I'm amazed at how quickly I've picked up even taking off and hovering - I do like to learn things the hard way!


Don't know if it was a coincidence though, but I found the tail fin seemed to cause problems when I was trying to take off, so I removed it and it seemed to help!

[Mike Sanders]

You are doing well. Keep at it.