Stupid beginner questions - nano CPS and DX6

[tbourner]

Can I ask lots of stupid questions and hopefully get some not so stupid answers please?

The Blade Nano CP-S manual says:

Does the nano actually "know" what F-Mode is? IE: I set up switch B for the 3 modes, does the circuit on the heli know that it wants stability, agility or 3D modes? Or is it purely through the setup of the throttle and pitch curves?

From that manual, it says to set up mixing, GER->GER, rates at 100%, offset 20% on the bind button. The images on the DX6 look like this though:

So is that right? Obviously I need to set the switch to I rather than inhibit. What do 1, 2 and 3 relate to?
When I tried pushing the button the LED on the nano went red/blue together and I had no controls at all, couldn't get it back to blue either without unplugging. Hence setting it to inhibit.

F-Mode 1 and 2, I assume I need to put hold on, set throttle to the middle, flick switch B to 1 or 2, then turn off hold?
This will set throttle on permanently, but with no pitch - so 3D effectively. Is that how helis are supposed to work? Is there no way to ramp up the throttle to midpoint? I'm scared to do it through fear of fire and death.

Trim. I currently have elevator at +24 and aileron at -4. The +24 doesn't seem right to me, is that a normal kind of value to have to use?
It may be because I'm only flying in the kitchen at the moment, it's narrow so there may be some strange windage and ground effect stuff going on?



At least I have managed to do some flying, it drops really quickly compared to the NanoQX, which surprised me, I hope that's a CP heli thing and not my settings.

[Heliboy31]

I have just tried to pre-empt some of your questions by replying to your other thread and we crossed.
You may have asked too many questions for me to answer in one go but I will try:-

"Does the nano actually "know" what F-Mode is? IE: I set up switch B for the 3 modes, does the circuit on the heli know that it wants stability, agility or 3D modes?"
The heli receiver/Flt controller knows which stability(self levelling & limited pitch & roll)/agility/3D mode to go into by the signal sent to it by the Tx using the "Gear channel" switched using Switch B.

Mixing screens
You have got into the wrong part of the mixing screen on the Tx programming. In your second screen shot you need to get GER>GER back to INH>INH and then go back to the previous screen and:-
Click on P-Mix 1 : INH>INH.
then Highlight "Normal" and click on that
change INH>INH to GER>GER
then highlight the right bits...... for Rate, Offset and Sw and put the right numbers in ie 100%,100% for Rate; 20% for Offset & "Switch I" for Switch. You also need to make sure that the two little blocks underneath the switch line are set so the left one is transparent with a little square in it and the right hand one is black with a white "I" in it.

Regarding the F Mode 1 & 2 start up process... you can do what you suggest but you will not have stability mode at take off (not essential but nice when learning) and you might get a bit of a tail kick when the throttle hold comes off.
It might be better when you are learning to just start in Normal.
If you start the helo in "Normal mode" Switch B on position "0" you should be able to slowly ramp up the throttle and & RPM assuming:
1. you have the throttle curves set correctly
2. you have the throttle stick at the bottom to start with
3. you take off throttle hold by switching Sw H from Pos 1 to Pos 0.

When you are happy moving into agility mode (and if you are using the manual settings), you can start off in Normal (as above) and then switch to Pos 1 on the Flt mode switch (SwB) at mid throttle stick before take off or when you have established a steady hover.

Trim
If you have initialised the heli properly (heli level & not moved during initialisation after plugging in the battery) and you haven't bent its controls through any previous crashes, then it shouldn't need any trimming. Make sure your trims are all set to zero before you initialise.

If you have all the settings as per the manual, and you are set with Switch B in pos 1 or 2 then you have full throttle at full positive and negative collective pitch which will give you lots of "DOWN" (with the throttle/Pitch stick down) as well as "UP" (with the throttle/Pitch stick up) -- Yes it is a CP thing! It might be better to stick with Normal mode for your first few flights.
Note if you choose to use the Sw B Pos 1 & 2 throttle curves remember to use the throttle hold switch if/when you are about to hit something hard.

I hope this helps.

[tomatwalden]

...
... it drops really quickly compared to the NanoQX, which surprised me, I hope that's a CP heli thing and not my settings.

It will do.

The nano-QX is essentially fixed-pitch. That is the altitude of the quad is controlled by the speed of the rotors. Less left stick = less throttle = less lift. The effect of this is delayed though as the rotors don't change speed instantaneously - they time take to slow down - and therefore produce less lift.

The nano-CPS though is a collective pitch heli. That is the altitude of the heli is controlled by the PITCH of the rotors - their speed remains constant. Less left stick = negative pitch = the heli being driven (under power) towards the ground. In contrast to the fixed pitch nature of the quad - this change in (collective) pitch is fairly instantaneous - and rather than gravity moving the heli downwards, the blades are DRIVING it towards the ground - as well as gravity having its effect.

Check this out - hopefully will help! : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ECC2E56B68A2C3

[Peteski]

Just to add that you should never use any Tx trim at all on a flybarless heli like this. The FBL unit will interpret any trim as a permanent control stick request rather than a simple offset which will cause big problems in agility mode i.e. the heli will just continue to pitch forward and roll right until it crashes into the ground! So put all the trims on the Tx back to zero.

The heli will naturally tend to drift left on take-off due to the tail rotor thrust, so you have to compensate for this with a little right aileron until it leans over far enough to compensate and get into a stable hover. CP helis don't hover perfectly flat, especially micros like this. It will lean over maybe 5 degrees to the right when hovering, which looks a bit odd at first but you soon get used to it. As for pitching forward or backward, it depends on the centre of gravity. It's probably quite tail heavy which will require a little positive elevator to compensate.

If your heli is drifting a lot with the self levelling switched on, then you may need to calibrate the self-levelling function. I think there is a specific procedure for trimming this on Blade helis with SAFE modes, but it doesn't involve using any conventional Tx trims. You carry out a special trim flight while the FBL unit trims itself (check the manual for this procedure). But don't expect it to hover perfectly in one spot! CP helis drift around and need constant corrective stick inputs to compensate. Even with self-levelling switched on, it will still need some correction to stop it from drifting away.

[tbourner]

Thanks all!

The heli receiver/Flt controller knows which stability(self levelling & limited cyclic pitch & roll)/agility/3D mode to go into by the signal sent to it by the Tx using the "Gear channel" switched using Switch B.

I hadn't realised there was a page 2 in channel assign (from the other thread), thanks for that!

Mixing screens
You have got into the wrong part of the mixing screen on the Tx programming. In your second screen shot you need to get GER>GER back to INH>INH and then go back to the previous screen and:-
Click on P-Mix 1 : INH>INH.
then Highlight "Normal" and click on that.........

I was in P-Mix 1, that's where I set it as you see it with GER > GER, I can't find "normal", or anything that looks like the options from the manual! It is quite a confusing interface though if you don't know what is selectable and what isn't I find myself scrolling through and clicking on everything to try to find the right bit.

Regarding the F Mode 1 & 2 start up process... you can do what you suggest but you will not have stability mode at take off (not essential but nice when learning) and you might get a bit of a tail kick when the throttle hold comes off.
It might be better when you are learning to just start in Normal.
If you start the helo in "Normal mode" Switch B on position "0" you should be able to slowly ramp up the throttle and & RPM assuming:
1. you have the throttle curves set correctly
2. you have the throttle stick at the bottom to start with
3. you take off throttle hold by switching Sw H from Pos 1 to Pos 0.

When you are happy moving into agility mode (and if you are using the manual settings), you can start off in Normal (as above) and then switch to Pos 1 on the Flt mode switch (SwB) at mid throttle stick before take off or when you have established a steady hover.

Well I thought about that, but at mid stick in Normal it's definitely flying, I'll check later but I imagine it won't be a steady hover (it'll either be heading for the ceiling or the floor) - flicking the switch to mode 1 at this point I think would be worse? I could try it - at least I have spare blades!

The nano-QX is essentially fixed-pitch. That is the altitude of the quad is controlled by the speed of the rotors. Less left stick = less throttle = less lift. The effect of this is delayed though as the rotors don't change speed instantaneously - they time take to slow down - and therefore produce less lift.

The nano-CPS though is a collective pitch heli. That is the altitude of the heli is controlled by the PITCH of the rotors - their speed remains constant. Less left stick = negative pitch = the heli being driven (under power) towards the ground. In contrast to the fixed pitch nature of the quad - this change in (collective) pitch is fairly instantaneous - and rather than gravity moving the heli downwards, the blades are DRIVING it towards the ground - as well as gravity having its effect.

Yeah I actually said in the other thread (confusing double threadage by me, sorry) that I tried turning to mode 1 from mode N whilst sat idle on the worktop, and due to the throttle curve being 100 at 0 stick on mode 1 (and full neg pitch), it tried to fly itself through my worktop at full speed and ended up on the floor!
So I do kind of get it, I just don't know the "feel" of it all yet, and it felt a bit strange when I lifted off the throttle slightly and it just dropped out of the air! Just practice I guess.
I have actually watched most of those vids on that channel as well, I hadn't considered the idea of gyroscopic precession changing where the swash needs to act on the rotor disc (and now I know it's actually called phase lag). Interesting stuff.

Just to add that you should never use any Tx trim at all on a flybarless heli like this. The FBL unit will interpret any trim as a permanent control stick request rather than a simple offset which will cause big problems in agility mode i.e. the heli will just continue to pitch forward and roll right until it crashes into the ground! So put all the trims on the Tx back to zero.

The heli will naturally tend to drift left on take-off due to the tail rotor thrust, so you have to compensate for this with a little right aileron until it leans over far enough to compensate and get into a stable hover. CP helis don't hover perfectly flat, especially micros like this. It will lean over maybe 5 degrees to the right when hovering, which looks a bit odd at first but you soon get used to it. As for pitching forward or backward, it depends on the centre of gravity. It's probably quite tail heavy which will require a little positive elevator to compensate.

If your heli is drifting a lot with the self levelling switched on, then you may need to calibrate the self-levelling function. I think there is a specific procedure for trimming this on Blade helis with SAFE modes, but it doesn't involve using any conventional Tx trims. You carry out a special trim flight while the FBL unit trims itself (check the manual for this procedure). But don't expect it to hover perfectly in one spot! CP helis drift around and need constant corrective stick inputs to compensate. Even with self-levelling switched on, it will still need some correction to stop it from drifting away.

I know there are lots of weird physics going on in big helicopters, I guess with R/C helis they have their own but similar quirks. I did think it was odd that it leant to the right! Will go back to zero trim and re-bind and see how I go.

[tbourner]

Next question: My servos are noisy, like they're jittering all the time, is that normal?

[Heliboy31]

Next question: My servos are noisy, like they're jittering all the time, is that normal?

Yes. Especially if you are in stability mode.

[Grumpy]

The mixing menu you want is the one that looks like this (taken from the DX9 manual).. note that there is an 'offset' option which is where you should enter the 20% value.

[Heliboy31]

Mixing.
I can see where you are on the screens, but you need to start afresh. Get back to "P-Mix 1 : INH>INH" first.
Then follow the steps in my long post above. I have added an extra step now to clarify.
When you highlight and click on "P-Mix 1: INH>INH" you go to a screen that has "Normal" and "Curve". You need to highlight and click "Normal". I think you must have highlighted and clicked on "Curve" which got you into the wrong screens for this purpose.

Flying at mid stick.
If you have set pitch curves with 50% at mid stick for all three modes then you should really only be bobbing around on your skids at mid stick during the take off sequence. I will charge a battery and check this on mine in a few mins.
Once you have taken off and established a steady hover in Normal mode (Sw B in position 0), you should be just above mid stick. With the settings as per the manual, If you then change Sw B to position 1, without moving the stick, your collective pitch should be the same but your throttle (& rpm) will increase. This will cause the heli to go up somewhat. You will need to experiment and just get used to the feeling of how sensitive the heli is to the change of rpm. When doing this for the first few times and getting used to it, it might well be worth going outside so you don't have a hard ceiling in the way. Also if the heli does suddenly leap up (more than you expect) be very careful you don't over compensate by slamming the pitch/throttle switch right down otherwise you will be hurtling towards the floor -- as you have already experienced --- be careful on your collective pitch, it is sensitive.

[tbourner]

Hmmm OK thanks, maybe I have more issues - I'll try trimming back to zero and rebinding, plus I'll have another look at the mixing screens.

So the bind; when I did it I think I plugged in the heli, then held down the bind button and turned on the DX6 (having set it up on the right model etc.), then I waited for the LED on the heli to stop flashing, then I did right rudder and let go of the bind button.
Should I be holding right stick immediately after turning it on? Before the screen boots up? Then release both when the heli stops flashing?

I'm just confused by the:

4. Push the bind switch/button while powering on the transmitter.
5. After 2–3 seconds, release the bind switch/button.
6. Move the rudder control stick to full right

Not very helpful, what is 2-3 seconds? Is that once the screen is on? Surely it would have bound by then, so what's the point of the right rudder hold?

/confusion

[Heliboy31]

Just given my CPS a little workout.
With a fresh battery:-
Sw B in Position "0" (Normal and Stability mode, Blue light on): 50% throttle/Pitch stick = heli still on the floor. Take off occurred between 67% and 75%. Nice hover at 72%.

[tbourner]

Thanks dude, I'm going to try to leave work early to play, although got a meal out with wifey tonight - I wonder if I can take it with me.......

[tomatwalden]

I know there are lots of weird physics going on in big helicopters, I guess with R/C helis they have their own but similar quirks. I did think it was odd that it leant to the right! Will go back to zero trim and re-bind and see how I go.

No, lean to the right is normal. As Peteski mentioned, the tail rotor will naturally push an RC heli left, so it needs to lean right to compensate and hold a stable hover.

[tbourner]

I shouldn't need to worry about swash leveling or any other adjustments on a BNF (or RTF) heli, right? At least not until some wear and crash damage sets in.

[Heliboy31]

Fingers crossed, yes.