Which heli next?

[tomatwalden]

Just been comparing prices and I am a bit surprised to see that a 450L Dominator and Blade 300 CFX are more or less the same price. I know the Blade is ready built (which given my time constraints is actually a big plus - at least until I crash it!) but seems like the 450L is the better value, presuming it really is higher quality and flies better of course. I was expecting the 450L to be a fair bit more expensive or the Blade a fair bit cheaper!

The Align is more mass-market and you have to build it yourself. Both of these things make it cheaper. That's not to say it's lower quality, frankly, it isn't. The 300CFX airframe is good, the FBL unit (AR7200BX) is good, but the motor and the servos are sub-par really. The 450L combo has no really duff components - although the 3GX version is arguably not the most popular FBL unit on the market.

The Blade 360CFX (ignore the "360" name - it's the same size as the 450L) is better than the 300CFX. It has decent motor and servos which compliment the AR7200BX and frame. But, being new, and pre-built, it is more expensive than the 450L (currently £384 at Fast lads and Midland). Bear in mind though that with the 450L, you'd need to add on the price of two DSMX satellites to bind it to your DX8 (so add on £40 for two sats to the 450L price).

[Peteski]

Hi Chris,

Yes the 450X is also on my radar. I know exactly what you mean about buying second hand to both save money and get over the psychological disappointment of potentially smashing a brand new toy, but on the other hand I'm worried about picking up a potential dog with hidden issues while not having the experience to sort it quickly. If I buy new from the local shop (which has a very good reputation) at least they would provide support on setup etc, plus I'd have a warranty of course. So in the case of the 450X I'd effectively be paying an extra £150 for shop support and warranty over a used one. Plus it would be new of course, although as you say that could be a psychological disadvantage! I've been watching out for used 450s here and on ebay and they do seem to go for pretty strong money, especially Align 450s. For example a Trex 450 pro dfc I was watching recently went for £217 with no batteries, although it did have a Spektrum rx included. I can get a brand new 450L Dominator Super Combo kit for around £300 inc a receiver so in that case I'd just buy a new one and build it up myself.

Unfortunately I haven't had chance to fly the 130X again due to dodgy weather and lack of time, but will try again this weekend. Funnily enough, simply because it has the really nicely detailed Red Bull scale body I'm actually quite scared of wrecking it, even though it cost less than a bog standard 130X! It's more the principle of it than a cost thing. I was even thinking of buying a standard 130X to run alongside it, which I wouldn't be bothered about scuffing up at all. It's odd how our minds sometimes work! In the meantime I have added a mCPX to the fleet which I'm enjoying too for the same carefree reason.

[Peteski]

The Align is more mass-market and you have to build it yourself. Both of these things make it cheaper. That's not to say it's lower quality, frankly, it isn't. The 300CFX airframe is good, the FBL unit (AR7200BX) is good, but the motor and the servos are sub-par really. The 450L combo has no really duff components - although the 3GX version is arguably not the most popular FBL unit on the market.

The Blade 360CFX (ignore the "360" name - it's the same size as the 450L) is better than the 300CFX. It has decent motor and servos which compliment the AR7200BX and frame. But, being new, and pre-built, it is more expensive than the 450L (currently £384 at Fast lads and Midland). Bear in mind though that with the 450L, you'd need to add on the price of two DSMX satellites to bind it to your DX8 (so add on £40 for two sats to the 450L price).

Thanks Tom. Yes I'd already factored in the additional rx cost for the 450L to bring it to just over £300, same as I can get a 300 CFX locally. But I guess it really comes down to which would actually work best for me. The bnf Blade options would be convenient for sure. I'm leaning toward the 300 CFX. I know you say the motor and servos are a bit ropey, but would I even notice that as a newcomer? Or are you saying they could potentially fail on me, which I would certainly notice!

[Chrisrw]

The servo's are the same size and type (I think) as on the 450x (plastic gears, a bit slow running on 4.8v etc). Although they will probably be fine for us beginners from a speed point they will strip fairly easily. Mind you, I tipped the 450x and they survived and a 300cfx had a hard inverted landing at the indoor club last night (broken blades etc) but the servos held out. Either way things are going to break on the 300 in a crash so as long as you except that I guess you should be good. The gears are only £1.99 for the servos so it's more about the rebuild time than money when they strip.

Thanks Tom. Yes I'd already factored in the additional rx cost for the 450L to bring it to just over £300, same as I can get a 300 CFX locally. But I guess it really comes down to which would actually work best for me. The bnf Blade options would be convenient for sure. I'm leaning toward the 300 CFX. I know you say the motor and servos are a bit ropey, but would I even notice that as a newcomer? Or are you saying they could potentially fail on me, which I would certainly notice!

[Chrisrw]

Another 130x may be worth it - they can be picked up for as little as £90 new for a BNF and much less secondhand. I have two and always one is up and running! If you can build some confidence on the 130x moving to the 300/450 will be easier.

Hi Chris,

Unfortunately I haven't had chance to fly the 130X again due to dodgy weather and lack of time, but will try again this weekend. Funnily enough, simply because it has the really nicely detailed Red Bull scale body I'm actually quite scared of wrecking it, even though it cost less than a bog standard 130X! It's more the principle of it than a cost thing. I was even thinking of buying a standard 130X to run alongside it, which I wouldn't be bothered about scuffing up at all. It's odd how our minds sometimes work! In the meantime I have added a mCPX to the fleet which I'm enjoying too for the same carefree reason.

[tomatwalden]

Thanks Tom. Yes I'd already factored in the additional rx cost for the 450L to bring it to just over £300, same as I can get a 300 CFX locally. But I guess it really comes down to which would actually work best for me. The bnf Blade options would be convenient for sure. I'm leaning toward the 300 CFX. I know you say the motor and servos are a bit ropey, but would I even notice that as a newcomer? Or are you saying they could potentially fail on me, which I would certainly notice!

The problem with the motor is that some die prematurely. The good news is that a dodgy one is fairly obvious as the noise coming from a motor about to die is pretty distinctive (like a bag of nails!). My first motor was one of the dodgy ones - I knew it sounded bad so sent it back to HH and got a free replacement which is working fine If you get a good one, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It was just poor QC on these motors. There is a mod to avoid the problem if you're particularly worried.

See : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8TZ_ZyYi3Y

re: Servos. I completely agree with Chris. The servos actually WORK fine! They're plenty fast enough for the 300cfx and won't let you down at all through normal usage. Their only problem is the plastic/nylon gears which do tend to strip in a crash. That said, a gear set is indeed cheap as chips and isn't a particularly fiddly job at all. I flew my 450-3D, 450X and 300CFX using these servos for years. It's only recently that after about the 20th time that I'd fixed a servo after a crash that I splashed out on metal gear Savox servos for my 300cfx.

re: Crashes. The 300cfx CAN survive a crash better than a 450 in the right conditions. Last summer I tended to fly my 300cfx in a meadow with long grass. The lighter weight of the 300 compared to a 450 meant that if I lost it and hit throttle hold, the grass generally caught and held the 300 above the ground. I'm pretty sure a 450 would have hit harder. Consequently, I had at least two 300 crashes that were damage-free! But, over short grass or an indoor hall, a 300 will probably suffer as much damage as a 450 in all honesty - although maybe plastic blades (viable on a 300) will trump carbon 450 blades.

re: Noise. Blade recently made a slant main gear and pinion available for the 300cfx. Lynx already did one, but the Blade one is half the price and comes in a pack of two! The slant gear makes the 300 significantly quieter flight!

See : http://www.modelhelicopters.co.uk/he...e-300-cfx.html

[Peteski]

re: Noise. Blade recently made a slant main gear and pinion available for the 300cfx. Lynx already did one, but the Blade one is half the price and comes in a pack of two! The slant gear makes the 300 significantly quieter flight!

Yes, helical gears will run a lot quieter for sure. I noticed that the latest 450X now has them too. They will induce an axial thrust load onto the main shaft bearings, but I presume they can handle it.

[Peteski]

my mate's mini-Protos 450 is amazingly quiet

mmmm, that does look really nice. Interesting belt drive system and Brain FBL unit. I see they are £400 at Midland for the combo, so not that much more expensive than the other options I'm looking at. How are they for spares availability and cost?

[kenny d]

I can get a brand new 450L Dominator Super Combo kit for around £300 inc a receiver

hi pete , I think that might be a 6s as they were doing them for £275 but the 3s is more like £360 , IMO the 450L 6s is more for a experienced flyer & not for learning
on , if you are going to build a 450L the tail mechanism needs a lot of time to get it moving freely , the blades comes ready to fly with the well loved beastx , they are usually well set up out the box and that in its self is worth a lot

[Bee_random]

mmmm, that does look really nice. Interesting belt drive system and Brain FBL unit. I see they are £400 at Midland for the combo, so not that much more expensive than the other options I'm looking at. How are they for spares availability and cost?

The mini has good spares supply c/o Fastlad & Midland. The real win is that it holds up well in a crash.. trust me I know!

The Gorilla landing gear is indestructible. If it bends out of shape after a lot of pounding.. just get a hairdryer and bend it back!
The blade grips are a weak-link in the system. Buy the plastic only replacement and you'll have quick cheap repairs, I've only ever bust one servo gear in numerous crashes as a result. It'll fly a long time on a busted frame and the shafts are strong as an Ox. They will bend, but it takes some effort!

The only bad feedback is the stock pinion/OWB is a dud. They lost control of the quality some time back and took ages to come up with a solution. There is a upgrade available now, so if you find the motor is spinning and the blades not then just fit the replacement.

All in all this is excellent value and doesn’t need any upgrades to fly very well (providing they gave you a good pinion!)

I use TGY306 servos and vbar on a 6S setup and it is easily the best 450 I’ve flown. There is a stretch kit, but not really needed IMHO.

[Peteski]

Great info Bee, many thanks for posting.

[Peteski]

I can get a brand new 450L Dominator Super Combo kit for around £300 inc a receiver

hi pete , I think that might be a 6s as they were doing them for £275 but the 3s is more like £360 , IMO the 450L 6s is more for a experienced flyer & not for learning
on , if you are going to build a 450L the tail mechanism needs a lot of time to get it moving freely , the blades comes ready to fly with the well loved beastx , they are usually well set up out the box and that in its self is worth a lot

Thanks Kenny. I presumed the 6S would be overkill for me, but I wondered if it was possible to tame it down on the settings? I think I could get either 3S or 6S combos for around £270 from RC Heliguru presuming their website stock list is up to date. But I'm really liking the look of the Protos!

[Bee_random]

Thanks Kenny. I presumed the 6S would be overkill for me, but I wondered if it was possible to tame it down on the settings? I think I could get either 3S or 6S combos for around £270 from RC Heliguru presuming their website stock list is up to date. But I'm really liking the look of the Protos!

The only difference between 6S and 3S is that 6S will run cooler, because the voltage is higher, the current draw is lower for the same power demand. So when working the power (hard 3D) the batteries will be cooler and likely last longer, less likely to get over temp issues with the ESC as well.

Is there any significance with the 'power' of the heli.. no. So yes, you can tune/tame any heli down. The FBl unit will enable this along with throttle curve and if necessary gearing (should not be needed). I would go 6S if you have the charging capability.

[tomatwalden]

Thanks Kenny. I presumed the 6S would be overkill for me, but I wondered if it was possible to tame it down on the settings? I think I could get either 3S or 6S combos for around £270 from RC Heliguru presuming their website stock list is up to date. But I'm really liking the look of the Protos!

As mentioned, 6S or 3S makes no difference to the power of the heli, or the way it flies. It simply means (for example)

3S ... 2200mah @ 12v
6S ... 1100mah @ 24v

In both cases, the power is the same. 6S just runs cooler because the current draw is lower. But the heli will fly exactly the same (assuming motor and pinion are geared accordingly)

[simon1]

What about the new oxy 3 from lynx? Oxy3 By Lynx Heli Innovation Kit motor/esc OXY3-002 Model Helicopters. You could get it up and running for a sensible price with turnigy 306 servos maybe a kbar (vbar clone).
Looks good quality im debating getting one.