considering the hobby

[5hane]

Houston I have my first problem.
So today I flew the MSR without the training gear for the first time. All was well until it attacked me and hit the deck.
Now it sounds and behaves very strangely. I don't have all the lingo down yet so please forgive the following explanation of the problem:
As I increase the throttle the heli starts to whine and rotate to the left, and as I go for lift of I have very little control and it just scoots off.
There isn't any obvious physical damage, but with the heli in hand I have noticed that not only does left input to the left stick control the tail, it also appears to control the left servo that puts the heli into reverse. Of course that might just be normal having not looked that closely before. Also, as far as I can tell the whining is coming from the tail motor, and gets louder when moving the left stick left.
Any ideas would be gratefully received.

Further: Today I decided to replace the tail rotor, and to my surprise the heli is back in control again. The tail motor still makes a he'll of a racket since the crash though?

So what have I learnt about the MSR so far:

1 The tail rotor can be damaged without looking damaged
2 Right input to the right stick also puts some input into the elevator servo
3 The heli swings like a pendulum when for no apparent reason
4 Flight characteristics change with each fresh battery
5 After powering up the heli it is important to wait at least 5 secs before powering on the transmitter
6 My kitchen isn't large enough

[james_2k]

I'm fairly sure you should always power the transmitter first. Even on my nano I do that.

[5hane]

I'm fairly sure you should always power the transmitter first. Even on my nano I do that.

That's good to know, thank you. I thought perhaps having to wait +5 seconds was just a quirk of the MSR.

[Mike Sanders]

Power the transmitter, then wait at least 5 seconds before plugging in the heli. Don't have the transmitter too close to the receiver when plugging in. Aim for at least 1.5 metres.

[5hane]

Had my best crash yet tonight. I say best because it was a little more stable afterwards:

http://goo.gl/3lRJTe

[5hane]

I really must stop watching other people flying MSR's on YouTube! They nearly all seem to be able to keep a steady hover. They must have been practicing for months!
My steady hovers are a mixture of swinging back and forth a few metres and drifting left and right. It's all constant corrections before usually crashing.
I'm looking forward to being able to control this thing. Thank god I didn't buy anything larger or I would have decapitated someone by now. Starting small was definitely a good idea

[5hane]

I really must stop watching other people flying MSR's on YouTube! They nearly all seem to be able to keep a steady hover. They must have been practicing for months!
My steady hovers are a mixture of swinging back and forth a few metres and drifting left and right. It's all constant corrections before usually crashing.
I'm looking forward to being able to control this thing. Thank god I didn't buy anything larger or I would have decapitated someone by now. Starting small was definitely a good idea

OMG I take it all back. I have finally bound the MSR to my DX6I. It's like a different heli. After a tiny bit of trimming I can actually keep a steady hover now, well until the pendulum effect kicks in, but this is great

[james_2k]

Don't get used to trimming when you go flybarless. Very bad

[5hane]

Don't get used to trimming when you go flybarless. Very bad

Thanks for the tip.
I followed this guy's steps: http://goo.gl/iQbVZ6
I really need a hall before I destroy this thing though lol. Anyone in Guildford with a nice big space?

[5hane]

The pendulum effect is actually quite annoying now. Although the heli is now steadier when using the DX6i, the pendulum effect then kicks in making it impossible to know of its trimmed correctly. Should I stop focusing on trying to get it perfect and just practice flying now or is it actually possible for this thing to hang in the air completely steady Like this: http://goo.gl/ZFJd2s
I recon someone else is controlling his lol

[tomatwalden]

When you say "pendulum effect", you shouldn't every see that in a stable hover. I wonder if you're describing another effect - commonly known as TBE - Toilet Bowl Effect .. whereby the heli moves in a circular motion albeit with the nose always pointing in one direction? A "pendulum effect" is more where the heli is flying along and upon a stop, the body of the heli swings (or pendulums) under the disc.

TBE can be fixed .. Dealing With Toilet Bowl Effect On Your Micro RC Helicopter

[5hane]

When you say "pendulum effect", you shouldn't every see that in a stable hover. I wonder if you're describing another effect - commonly known as TBE - Toilet Bowl Effect .. whereby the heli moves in a circular motion albeit with the nose always pointing in one direction? A "pendulum effect" is more where the heli is flying along and upon a stop, the body of the heli swings (or pendulums) under the disc.

TBE can be fixed .. Dealing With Toilet Bowl Effect On Your Micro RC Helicopter

Ahh yes that'll be it then, thank you. I'll see if I can do the fix.

[Chrisrw]

Hi 5hane,
This is the problem I had with mine too (that's why I eventually gave up and bought a msrx) but the most likely cause is the swash plate is not at the correct position.
If you put the heli on a table and gently tap the flybar paddles (the ones in between the main rotors) up and down they should move freely - just a feather light touch should make them bump up and down.
If they seem in anyway stiff to move then that will definitely cause TBE (as Tom mentioned). You need to then gently move the swash plate either very slightly up or down the main shaft (it will feel like there is some sort of central position). Keep tapping the flaybars and when they appear to move freely then try another flight to see if there is any improvement. There is a tool for doing this (I never has one as both my msr's were bought second hand and sold as spares!) but I don't think you really need it - just gently play with the position of the swash and you should find the sweet spot where the paddles are at there loosest. I found after every crash (including any landings were the blades are stopped such as falling over onto the carpet) I had to do this. After a few trys I found it only took a couple of seconds to do and made the msr pretty stable.
In the end I decided that crashing as often as I was I'd be better of with a flybarless micro as the head is so much simpler. I flew the msrx with broken skids, broken frame, broken canopy and it always flew well - I eventually had to replace the tail rotor (maybe after 150 flights) but other than that it didn't suffer any of the issues I had with the msr's. The one advantage though of the msr is it turns well left and right (the msrx has issues with left turns!) but that only becomes a problem later on. Now when I want a rest from flying the the 6ch helis round the house I still pick up the msrx and it feels so much easier - I can do great CW circuits in any room - but CCW (having to turn left) is still an issue!
Anyway, back to the msr - try that and see if that helps. I just saw your utube video - yes that is definitely TBE - toilet bowl effect! - it feels like it wants to hover in a circle (but maintaining its heading).
A big space is a great help - if you get a completely calm day (and there has to be absolutely no wind - or a very sheltered garden) do take it out - it will really boost your confidence and you have much more time to correct.
Good luck

[5hane]

Hi 5hane,
This is the problem I had with mine too (that's why I eventually gave up and bought a msrx) but the most likely cause is the swash plate is not at the correct position.
If you put the heli on a table and gently tap the flybar paddles (the ones in between the main rotors) up and down they should move freely - just a feather light touch should make them bump up and down.
If they seem in anyway stiff to move then that will definitely cause TBE (as Tom mentioned). You need to then gently move the swash plate either very slightly up or down the main shaft (it will feel like there is some sort of central position). Keep tapping the flaybars and when they appear to move freely then try another flight to see if there is any improvement. There is a tool for doing this (I never has one as both my msr's were bought second hand and sold as spares!) but I don't think you really need it - just gently play with the position of the swash and you should find the sweet spot where the paddles are at there loosest. I found after every crash (including any landings were the blades are stopped such as falling over onto the carpet) I had to do this. After a few trys I found it only took a couple of seconds to do and made the msr pretty stable.
In the end I decided that crashing as often as I was I'd be better of with a flybarless micro as the head is so much simpler. I flew the msrx with broken skids, broken frame, broken canopy and it always flew well - I eventually had to replace the tail rotor (maybe after 150 flights) but other than that it didn't suffer any of the issues I had with the msr's. The one advantage though of the msr is it turns well left and right (the msrx has issues with left turns!) but that only becomes a problem later on. Now when I want a rest from flying the the 6ch helis round the house I still pick up the msrx and it feels so much easier - I can do great CW circuits in any room - but CCW (having to turn left) is still an issue!
Anyway, back to the msr - try that and see if that helps. I just saw your utube video - yes that is definitely TBE - toilet bowl effect! - it feels like it wants to hover in a circle (but maintaining its heading).
A big space is a great help - if you get a completely calm day (and there has to be absolutely no wind - or a very sheltered garden) do take it out - it will really boost your confidence and you have much more time to correct.
Good luck

Sorry for the late reply. I usually rely on email notification but it didn't happen this time.
Thank you for your suggestions, which I followed along with some of the advice given on the website Tom linked me to (above).
I checked the swash plate using the included tool but it was fine. The flybar is moving freely, as freely as suggested by you and the website☆.
I also sprayed the linkages with silicone, again as advised on the website☆, but I drew the line at sanding down the ball links as they are moving extremely freely.
Sadly it's made no difference and I slammed it into the washing machine grrrrr.
Is it an overkill to be considering a new model already or should I just keep dedicating time to fixing the TBE? If it wasn't for the TBE I'd be practicing forward flight with it by now.

[Chrisrw]

Maybe someone else with more msr experience can help? I couldn't fix the TBE on one of mine but combining the best of bits from both I managed to get one working ok which I still have. I just got it out to test (after reading your message) and its ok (hardly any TBE) but is a bit tatty - one pin missing one skids, one frame arm missing and I think either the FET is on the way out or the motor as it occasionally resets. The only other things I can think of are the main shaft (but they shouldn't bend being CF) but maybe it's split (check for springy play between the rotor blades and the white main gear at the bottom, or perhaps the gear itself is damaged (check it's flat and has no cracks). Is the flybar ok (not bent?). if the COG of the heli is off that can cause TBE but I can't see how that could be possible on an msr unless you've put anything in it! Other than that I don't know. If you happen to pass this way (Maidstone) you would be welcome to try swapping bits over (it's not like I can sell this one in its current condition) or you sometimes find them on ebay for £5-£10 for spares. I went through the same as you although I actually had the msrx first, then got a msr as at first the msrx was a little 'quick'. But once I got the dx6i setup and put some mix's in I quickly found the msrx easier than the msr (no TBE, and being FBL (flybarless) goes where you want it without being 'dragged' back by the flybar). If you do decide to try one they are still available at Kings Lynn models (E-Flite Blade mSRX - BNF Basic - Instock Now) for £40. You already have a controller, charger and batteries.
I don't want to advise you to try another model just yet (maybe you wont like the msrx?!) hopefully someone else might have some ideas? But if you do decide to get something else think of it as an addition to your fleet rather than a replacement!
I had a very small budget to start but quickly realised I wanted to learn more and more (needed a CP micro, then something bigger (the 130x) and now a 450x) all purchased second hand at roughly a third of what they would have cost new. I only started the end of October so things can move quite quickly once you get into it! I successfully flew a couple of circuits with the 450x this week so I'm still buzzing over that at the moment!!
I wouldn't recommend second hand msr or msrx (unless they go for pennies) as they are relatively cheap to buy new.
Anyone else with any other ideas on the msr?