Elevator overshoot

[robbancs]

I'm setting up the vx1n on a 450. I started not very long ago, i've set up the rates, expos, gains, style, agility. I haven't touched any of the more advanced parameters but I'm pretty happy for now with how it flies, except for one thing.

When I do full elevator flips and I suddenly stop or when I level out from a tail slide, for about half a second it continues flipping at a much slower but constant rate, and then stops and stays in place. It's not a bounce because it's not opposite direction, and it's not just mushiness, it very sharply slows down when I release the elevator, and then remains on that speed for up to a 45 degree overshoot.

It's very strange because other than this, it behaves very well even in rainbows and tictocs no problem at all.

I hope it's a typical problem and there's an easy solution.

[KevDavies]

increase your elevator stop gains. Sounds like they could do with turning up a bit

[Angelos]

Go to menu "Rotor::Control System" and change it to "Vigorous" and the problem will go away. As the vigorous mode drives the cyclic harder you may experience some vertical tail bounce. Use the "Rotor::Ele Debounce" to iron it out.

Kev, there is no stop gain on the elevator. I have played with the idea for other reasons but I didn't get the desired result so it was abandoned. Currently stop gains are available for the rudder only.

-Angelos

[robbancs]

I'll try today. Thanks

[KevDavies]

Go to menu "Rotor::Control System" and change it to "Vigorous" and the problem will go away. As the vigorous mode drives the cyclic harder you may experience some vertical tail bounce. Use the "Rotor::Ele Debounce" to iron it out.

Kev, there is no stop gain on the elevator. I have played with the idea for other reasons but I didn't get the desired result so it was abandoned. Currently stop gains are available for the rudder only.

-Angelos

glad you mentioned that cos ive been looking on my Goblin this morning and couldnt find them LOL

[robbancs]

I've switched to vigorous and the problem indeed disappeared. But now cyclic stops, especially in rainbows got very bouncy even though they used to be very clean in adaptive. Just as you suggested. Unfortunately even very high (up to 200) elevator debounce didn't remove the bounce completely. I didn't have much time for playing with different gain and deccelaration values, I guess there lies the solution.

Thanks for the help again!

[Angelos]

If you exceed the ideal value of "Ele Debounce" it will start to have an adverse effect. Start from 100% and increase it 10% at a time until you find the best value.

-Angelos

[robbancs]

Okay, I'll do it that way.

Now that I've been digging deeper, I started wondering what would be the recommended method for finding the right accel/deccel, ele debounce and gain values. In various places in the manual it is suggested that all these values can lead to bounce/oscillation. Also knowledge base 170 suggests starting with finding the best debounce value first but what if accel and deccel or gain is too high and that's causing the bounce?

Am I too naive to hope that there's a logical order in which the right values for these can be found for my flying style?

[philipjdall]

From the four units I own I always find it vital to get the main rotor gain as close as possible before fiddling with other settings. I agree with Angelos, vigorous definitely makes stops sharper and more consistent but is more sensitive to the correct rotor gain setting. I'd try dropping this before fiddling with debounce.

For what it's worth I normally match my decel/accel out at about 70%, machine depending.

Hope this helps, Phil

[robbancs]

Thanks Phil. I thought starting with dropping the gain would make sense because that's how we set up the tail too, but I wasn't sure.

70% accel/deccel feels good on mine too. Maybe 60, but 50 was way too slow when I tried. I really hope I'll be able to clean it up on 70.

Perhaps I should try other dampeners too. I'm using orange kbdd at the moment.

[Ross Northcott]

increase your elevator stop gains. Sounds like they could do with turning up a bit

Why give advice when you obviously aint got a clue? surely your better of just not saying anything rather than making up something that WILL only cause confusion?

[philipjdall]

Elevator overshoot

Thanks Phil. I thought starting with dropping the gain would make sense because that's how we set up the tail too, but I wasn't sure.

70% accel/deccel feels good on mine too. Maybe 60, but 50 was way too slow when I tried. I really hope I'll be able to clean it up on 70.

Perhaps I should try other dampeners too. I'm using orange kbdd at the moment.

Don't worry about changing dampners just yet - this will more likely be a settings issue (unless they are really worn?)

FWIW on mine I actually found the stock dfc dampners to work best.

But again, try and sort your rotor gain first. For a 450 I found the stock settings way too high so I'd bring it down to around 30 and see how that feels.

You can always up you're agility if you want a more responsive bird.

Good luck, Phil

[robbancs]

The dampeners are nearly new.

I'll try the lower gain too. I was on 37 when I had the last chance to fly.

Thinking further (in this weather that's all I can do ) I realised that I was still on 100% style. In adaptive only that felt precise enough in tictocs. Now that I'm experimenting with vigorous, I should probably go lower there as well. I guess that would also smooth the elevator stops somewhat.

[Morus]

Okay, I'll do it that way.

Now that I've been digging deeper, I started wondering what would be the recommended method for finding the right accel/deccel, ele debounce and gain values. In various places in the manual it is suggested that all these values can lead to bounce/oscillation. Also knowledge base 170 suggests starting with finding the best debounce value first but what if accel and deccel or gain is too high and that's causing the bounce?

Am I too naive to hope that there's a logical order in which the right values for these can be found for my flying style?

The logical order is : Learn how each of the options can effect the flight characteristic. Learn how to test each options. Learn what is the max and min for each options so you can find the sweet spot
I've told you to set the vortex to vigorous long ago.
The style option has nothing to do with the problem you have.

[robbancs]

Managed to get out yesterday. The bounce is gone and it's all set up perfectly! Thanks everyone for all the tips. Special thanks goes to Morus for his help with checking it over and the fine tuning.

I wish I didn't crash it into the turnips at the end. Only missed a scared little rabbit by a couple meters.