My Vortex Secret.....

[jimmyhorns]

So, for the last couple of months I have had quite a journey with the Vortex, and thankfully the story has a happy ending

The story starts with me scrabbling around for £250 notes to buy my 7HV airframe of Rocket Ronnie, selling my Electric Knight back to Trillian and finding myself either 'having' to put my 3Gx on the 7HV, or getting another FBL unit.

So onto the doorstep arrives a Fubar.

I had second thoughts.... for a few reasons.

1) do I trust it? 2) Is it right (its essentially a rip off, but then so is the YEP120HV I fitted to the 7HV)

So while I am ummming and ahhhhhing...... Mattie Lodge puts temptation in my way

"Do you fancy borrowing a Vortex, see if you like it? Its a different feel to your Vbar but I think you might like it" or words to that effect...


So the deal, I get a brand spanking new FBL unit to borrow and use, and all I have to do is let Mattie know what I think of it, so you can guess how long that decision making process took.


So next dilemma - which heli?. I have an align 600e, that started off as a flybarred kit, that I converted to the DFC head, and the new 7HV that I had never flown. Mattie suggested putting it on the 600, as I knew how it flew on the blueline Vbar pro and could compare and contrast. Actually the decision making process was all down to the fact that the 7HV's canopy has VBAR written across the front, but dont tell Mattie....

Well the VX1 I had was running on beta firmware, rather than the V1. The setup was utterly straightforward, the datapod really easy to use and although my first thoughts were this is going to be fiddly and awkward, I way preferred this to fiddling about on a laptop. It was good to go in about 30 minutes.


Now the bad news..... I had spent two months trying to iron out a single odd problem, and never really got there until today.....
I read threads saying that it took a lot of tweaking to get right, and so lots and lots of adjustments, but I couldnt get this odd characteristic out, the nose would bob just a little in forward flight, and during flips it would 'judder' and then continue to bob for about a second when back stationary.

Rotor gain, ele precomp..... all adjusted, better but not quite right..... new beta firmware - a bit better maybe? V2 - still the same


I was pretty much set on handing it back to Mattie, with a polite - "thanks, but I cant spend any more time trying to get this right." But.... apart from this issue it felt so much 'sharper' than the Vbar I had been used to. Mattie had been really helpful, showing great patience, but really wanted me to get it ironed out. We were both scratching heads. A secret group of clever people (I call the Masons) were scratching their heads --- Check dampers, think about changing blades.

So huffing and puffing, I change the dampers.

Instantly solving the problem, as I had the wrong bloody dampers installed.

I put some of Matties edge blades on (on a you break them I break you basis of course), and wow the heli really comes alive (I had been using regular TT blades, the £30 ones).


In short, this heli is now ******* brilliant. I feel a bit stupid having spent two months faffing around when all that was wrong was £3 of dampers.

Thank you Angelos, for all the work you have put into this. V2 is awesome straight out of the box (with the right dampers), all I did was tweak the rates.

Thank you Mattie, for the lend of the Vortex, all the help, and the loan of the Edge blades for testing. I gave the blades back pretty quick didnt I, I dont think im going to be quite so quick with the Vortex... you may have to wrestle it off me....


So if anyone wants to swap a Vortex for a full size Blueline Vbar Pro, you know where I am, your loss will be my gain


disclaimer: Im not sponsored, nor have received anything for writing this, just wanted to share my experience. Unfortunately I will have to give the Vortex back at some point

[tomatwalden]

You can't use soft dampeners with DFC heads mate! - schoolboy error!

[jimmyhorns]

You can't use soft dampeners with DFC heads mate! - schoolboy error!

I think they were fitted when I bought it second hand, but it was my mistake for not checking, nor thinking that after 100+ flights they probably wanted a change anyway...

You live and you learn, and with me in this hobby thats a pretty much constant learning curve

[Gavalar]

Just put on on my old knight 600e along with the compass dfc head. So far its turned it into something totally different, for the better.

Havent really flown it properly yet in anger, just been setting up. Now sits nice an still in a hover.
Going to whack some sab 630mm on it and give it some flying, even might do some extreme tail in hovering....

been using a vx1 in my warp, what a great combo.

[tonystevens]

Nice one and a nice read Btw why was it a secret lol?

[Mark_T]

I think they were fitted when I bought it second hand...

It is worth noting perhaps that the ones that ship with the feathering shaft sleeve are the softer variety, perhaps that's how they got on there in the first place.

They look just like the harder DFC ones, but obviously feel different if you are paying attention.

Very easy to miss that on a 2nd hand model, but glad you've solved it.

[aparkin]

hmm id interested in thoughts of the fubar now you have tried the top 2

so how long after handing the blades back did it take you to order some for your self

[jimmyhorns]

Nice one and a nice read Btw why was it a secret lol?

Well I kept quiet about it on here for a little while.

I was lent it as a favour, and so didnt want to start spouting off about it having problems.

As it turned out, it was my lack of attention to the dampers that was the problem, nothing at all to do with the FBL unit.

I was certain it was the Vortex, but it just shows really how quick to jump to conclusions we can be, so thought I would share it on here.

Curiously it didnt have the issue with the vbar fitted, which makes me think that there must be something 'tighter' about the Vortex's programming.

[jimmyhorns]

hmm id interested in thoughts of the fubar now you have tried the top 2

so how long after handing the blades back did it take you to order some for your self

I never fitted the fubar, so couldnt say how it flys or performs.

If my ESC quits on me, im likely going to be able to auto it down on the BEC

If my FBL unit quits on me, well, that isnt going to end well.

I didnt want to take the chance to be honest, not with that kind of money floating around in thin air...

[jimmyhorns]

Oh and as for blades, Im hunting around for a pair of the B grade finish Edges if I can find somewhere with them in stock

[ChrisB]

No the V Bar is just better

Must have fitted over 50 models with one now from a 450 to a big gasser,rigid heads to very soft heads,it just works.

So would the Fubar so i would also be interested in a side by side in the same depth.

[trillian]

I'm playing around with a Vortex now mainly to compare it with the Total-G. So far I have only had a few tentative flights due to minor issues with the ESC setup but I have not seen any bobbing tendencies. I hope to be able to really get a feel for it very soon. I also have it on the Knight 600e which I think is a fair vehicle for testing as it's a lightweight 600 size heli and I have the C of G set as high up as possible, fairly hard dampers but I can fit even harder ones if needed.

I have to say, those TT blades still impress me for the money. I have been using them for the maiden flights on the Knight and also for the first flights on the Beam and they're pretty darn good all-round blades but so far the Rail 606's have been the best on the Beam, particularly in windy conditions and I suspect the Edge FBL blades would be quite similar.

[jimmyhorns]

I have to say, those TT blades still impress me for the money. I have been using them for the maiden flights on the Knight and also for the first flights on the Beam and they're pretty darn good all-round blades but so far the Rail 606's have been the best on the Beam, particularly in windy conditions and I suspect the Edge FBL blades would be quite similar.

There seems to be a massive difference in the drag between the two blades, and the 'float' time in autos.

On mini-autos the decline in headspeed was about half as quick on the edges (thats a guess, but it was noticably longer by a long way), and interestingly I have been doing autos with the TT's and have always been struggling with keeping the headspeed up. Part of that is poor technique im sure, but some of it is the blades IMO

[tonystevens]

[QUOTE=jimmyhorns;1056154]
I was certain it was the Vortex, but it just shows really how quick to jump to conclusions we can be, so thought I would share it on here.

QUOTE]

So true!

[trillian]

There seems to be a massive difference in the drag between the two blades, and the 'float' time in autos.

On mini-autos the decline in headspeed was about half as quick on the edges (thats a guess, but it was noticably longer by a long way), and interestingly I have been doing autos with the TT's and have always been struggling with keeping the headspeed up. Part of that is poor technique im sure, but some of it is the blades IMO

I would guess it's due to the Edge blades most likely being a little heavier and also having the spanwise C of G further outboard. I haven't tried autos with them. I just got a pair of Spin 620s to try when I get a chance. A while back I tried some TT 620s on the Beam and compared to the Rails it felt like you might imagine it would if you turned the swash gain down, very nimble but not nearly as much 'hold'. I compared the rails to standard Radix and although the weight is very similar (I think they're both right around 140 grams) the Rails have the weight distributed further out toward the tip and I think this is prob what makes the biggest difference.