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Advice needed please - DIY FBL Raptor 50

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  • Advice needed please - DIY FBL Raptor 50

    Hi there, I have followed the lead from last month's edition of MHW and created my own FBL Raptor with some tinkering to the head and the installation of a BeastX unit. I figure if this works then it's a great way to give a new lease of life into old Raptors.

    I flew the helicopter with its flybar removed for the first time this morning, and whilst it is still in one piece 3 tankfulls later I wasn't completely satisfied that I was in complete control and I was wondering if anyone here could pass on some advice with the set-up of this unit. The unit was set-up with everything default as per the installation guide, and today's weather conditions were pretty much perfect for a maiden flight.

    Photos of my installation can be seen here on our flying club's forum --> Basingstoke Model Aero Club • View topic - Flybarless Raptor

    Here are my observations from these 3 test flights:-

    1. It was generally quite hard to hover the heli in one place, it would often drift and I found that quite hard to correct on the cyclic. i.e. there would be no way I'd be able to pass my B cert hovering moves with this machine. Is this normal for the BeastX?

    2. The aileron response was quite normal I'd say, so laterally it was quite easy to keep the heli in check.

    3. The elevator response was very different to the aileron response, there were several things I noted. i) the heli would often either drift forwards or backwards and putting in a small elevator correction didn't seem to do much so then if more elevator correction was put in it would suddenly jerk in the intended direction. This was quite scary and immediately knocked my confidence with the unit. ii) when doing a fast vertical climb the heli would not climb directly vertical (it did some times but most often not the case), the worrying thing here was that if I corrected the non-vertical climb out a small input did nothing then as more correction was applied it would suddenly move too far - again not very easy to control.

    I guess in summary the heli felt quite soft in the hover which does not give you the feeling of control and then I had a couple of occasions on the elevator where I almost got into a state of pilot induced oscillation where I was correcting what were previously over control inputs.

    Does anyone know why my elevator response could be so different from my aileron response? (CoG was checked and was perfect)

    Is there a reason why vertical climb outs are not vertical as intended?

    Is the mounting position of my unit causing this, is it too far from the main shaft, would that affect the elevator gyro?

    Sorry for all the questions, looking around the forum it seems that quite a few people have this unit so I was hoping someone may have come across a similar experience.

    Thanks in advance,

    Scott

  • #2
    I found the setup videos on youtube very helpfull heres a link to the first one
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQBOqa95zrQ&p=1D44A8487F0BBCA4&playnext=1& index=2]YouTube - Microbeast Setup: general considerations part 1[/ame]

    Gaza07

    Trex 500esp 6s Beast-X V3
    Trex 600esp 12s Beast-X V3
    A few Multi Rotors
    Multi Rotor Forum http://www.multi-rotor.co.uk

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    • #3
      That doesn't sound right at all.
      Its almost like there is a load of expo in your setting.
      Which mode is the beast in? sport,pro,extreme, radio etc?
      Do you have any trim or expo dialled in on your Tx?
      If so take it out unless you are using the Beast in "radio mode".
      Ade.
      sigpic
      http://www.passrightmotoringschool.co.uk

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      • #4
        Is the raptor ccpm (120 degree swash) or old style (1 servo operates the collective) you need to inform the unit of this. It could quite easily cause a problem like this if you have this setting wrong. If you have got this wrong you are probably quite lucky to have a 1 piece raptor still.
        Mikes Place - Home of the golden dump.

        Sponsored by Elite Models.
        http://www.elitemodelsonline.co.uk/

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        • #5
          Hi - thanks for the rapid responses! I have the beastx in sport mode and I do have some expo dialed-in. I will remove the expo.

          Thanks also for the links on YouTube I will check these out.

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          • #6
            Beast X mounting is poor right on end of servo tray with wires pulling down Vibration city i think also Geometry on head is wrong linkrods ideally need to be parallel to main shaft,ie bladegrip balls inline with centre of head.

            We used an RJX head on a Raptor 50 mechanical mixing with excellent results.

            In a correct enviroment the Beast X performs totally flawless,poor setup will kill it.

            Your problems sound like everything to do with vibration and setup mechanically and nothing to do with the operation of the unit itself.
            Last edited by ChrisB; 03-10-2010, 10:27 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ChrisB View Post
              i think also Geometry on head is wrong linkrods ideally need to be parallel to main shaft,ie bladegrip balls inline with centre of head.
              I don't think it's necessarily the case that the rods need to be parallel to the main shaft. It might be worth flipping the grips over so there is leading edge control (see this thread for reasons why: Positive / Negative / Neutral Delta - HeliFreak ). This could aid stability somewhat although I doubt it's the cause of what sounds like pretty drastic instability.

              Assuming the you've done the setup correctly then I would have thought vibration is the most likely problem. My TRex 500 with a BeastX (and a DIY rotorhead conversion) hovers perfectly with less correction needed than with the flybar. The climbouts are also 100% straight as an arrow. Again, more so than with the flybar.

              Of course there is always the possibility that the unit itself is faulty but some thing related to the setup/installation is probably more likely.

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              • #8
                Another thought.... as the Raptor has mechanical mixing and you say that the aileron is pretty good but not the elevator -is your elevator servo up to the job? Is it a different servo to the aileron and is it in good shape etc?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ChrisB View Post
                  Beast X mounting is poor right on end of servo tray with wires pulling down Vibration city
                  Yes, looking at the photos it appears that only about two thirds of the BeastX is supported by the solid surface of the frame. I would have thought that there's a very good chance that this is the cause of the problem.

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                  • #10
                    Wow! Thanks guys, all great advice. I will move the unit, via extension cables, to the Raptor's gyro platform. I will also flip the grips around.

                    Will post an update next weekend.

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                    • #11
                      I too read this with some interest. So I will be very interested in how you get on
                      Trex 250 se, DFC, 3GX.
                      Trex 500 esp, FBL, Beastx.
                      Trex 600 nsp, DFC, Beastx.
                      Compas 7HV, 120HV YEP, SK3 560, HV MKS, VBAR.
                      Squall (less 1 wing).
                      DSX9.

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                      • #12
                        I tried this again yesterday, the changes were a change in position of the unit to the Raptor's gyro platform and a change to leading edge pitch control. This has certainly resulted in a stable hovering helicopter, and it felt just like a flybarred heli when hovering, all was going well so I was about to try some circuits when I experienced what I can only describe as "severe blade wobble" during spool up. My immediate thoughts were that I'd popped a link however upon inspection all was fine. I am thinking that this set-up is not a good idea, because the blade pitch control arms are designed for a flybar they are not as far out as a FBL one and I believe that being too short is causing too much pitch change with the natural movement / slack in the swashplate. This is what I believe is causing this new instability, I am therefore going to fit a propper FBL head, now on order from Hong Kong...

                        However my initial thoughts on the BeastX unit are very positive, the heli was very stable in the air and yet felt quite light to control and the tail was very locked in, so for a £135 unit it is a bargain.

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                        • #13
                          Did you get the blue light at 6 degrees during the setup process?

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                          • #14
                            Great to hear you are getting on better with the Beast. I had a bad ground wobble on my Knight 600e and this turned out to be blade grip tension not being perfectly even on both blades allowing an imbalance on spool up. Around about 50 flights on this heli now and I love it.

                            Hop this helps.

                            Steve
                            Last edited by SGsailing; 10-10-2010, 12:49 PM.
                            Futaba T7c and 10cg

                            Mini Titan E325 Scorpoin Hk2221-8. Hg 5000 with 508mg on tail

                            Raptor V2- OS50Hyper, Align pipe, CSM Revlock, Radix 600's
                            GY502

                            Protos 500 6s scorpion motor Gy520

                            Knight 600E 8s, BeastX, Outrage Head

                            Slopers:Easy Glider, 2M Whisper, Ban she VectorIII

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                            • #15
                              Stick an RJX flybarless head on there and it will be fine,i have converted and flown a raptor 50 with that head and its perfect,just about to help a friend convert his Raptor 90 using RJX had also.

                              To get the best results you do need the blade grip balls to be inline with the centre of the headblock(0 delta) every fbl system that i know of asks for this,the Beast included.
                              Last edited by ChrisB; 10-10-2010, 12:53 PM.

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