3gx version 3 software update out

[tomatwalden]

Thanks Ian - a well reasoned response! The question people should be asking themselves therefore - does the V3 software have enough advantages over v2.1 to warrant the upgrade (both firmware and ESC) ?

I do think Align may have shot themselves in the foot with this though. If the 3GX is going to need a discrete BEC, it no longer becomes viable for 250 and 450 birds (unless you're willing to run old software) and the AR7200BX looks more and more attractive. At the high end, I don't think it's up there yet with the likes of vBar etc.

Have Align just squeezed themselves at both ends !?

[coolice]

Thanks Ian - a well reasoned response! The question people should be asking themselves therefore - does the V3 software have enough advantages over v2.1 to warrant the upgrade (both firmware and ESC) ?

I do think Align may have shot themselves in the foot with this though. If the 3GX is going to need a discrete BEC, it no longer becomes viable for 250 and 450 birds (unless you're willing to run old software) and the AR7200BX looks more and more attractive. At the high end, I don't think it's up there yet with the likes of vBar etc.

Have Align just squeezed themselves at both ends !?

Hey Buddy.

Thank you.

Unfortunately from what I have seen and felt, having had a quick fly of a friends model (thanks Phil), V3 is worth the upgrade if you want better performance as well as feel. Surprisingly the improvements made this time around make a real difference, even Duncan's quite liking the new software it seems.

I am due to upgrade a couple of close friends 3GX's in the next few weeks, Red3 who has my old 700E will be first and has said that once I've set his model up that I can give it a good wring out to see how it feels

It's unfortunate (& annoying perhaps) that in order to benefit from this new version one has to spend some extra money on an external BEC. In some respects it doesn't look good on Align, no matter if as in this case it was unavoidable or not and makes my role as an ambassador of Align products harder as well. But at the same time they cannot be put down for continuing to enhance their 3GX.
The saving grace is a reasonable BEC is quite cheap compared to a new ESC and is all that needs to be added to assure reliability.

From what I have heard Align are looking to compete with the BeastX unit, by sheer price bracket it cannot look to compete with the Vbar's I don't think, but as you have said in this market sector/price bracket it could do well. It is a great unit only let down by it's software, which looks to be changing no they are taking in input from more than two fliers.
.

[Gixxer]

So what exactly is the problem? I have ESCs on my 450 helis with an alleged 6 Amp BEC. Surely this is enough current?

[tomatwalden]

So what exactly is the problem? I have ESCs on my 450 helis with an alleged 6 Amp BEC. Surely this is enough current?

The problem is the 3GX needs more current. The stock ESC on my super combo 500EFL has this spec :-

BEC output utilizing switching power system, suitable for 7.4-22.2V (2s-6s) Li battery, with continuous current
rating of 3A, and burst rating of 5A.

The suggested unit of the Talon 90 has a BEC output of 9A continuous, 20A peak (Castle Creations | Talon 90 Controller)

Your unit is somewhere in the middle. Do you want to take the risk? eg. from Helifreak :- (3GX 3.0 power and gains on 550 and smaller helis - HeliFreak)

too late!

---

I upgraded to 3.0 and had a brownout on my first flight & crash.

I guess that's what happens if you upgrade too soon.

[Gixxer]

The problem is the 3GX needs more current. The stock ESC on my super combo 500EFL has this spec :-

BEC output utilizing switching power system, suitable for 7.4-22.2V (2s-6s) Li battery, with continuous current
rating of 3A, and burst rating of 5A.

The suggested unit of the Talon 90 has a BEC output of 9A continuous, 20A peak (Castle Creations | Talon 90 Controller)

Your unit is somewhere in the middle. Do you want to take the risk? eg. from Helifreak :- (3GX 3.0 power and gains on 550 and smaller helis - HeliFreak)

too late!

---

I upgraded to 3.0 and had a brownout on my first flight & crash.

I guess that's what happens if you upgrade too soon.

This is the part I'm not understanding... "Needs more current"... than what?

I keep reading that it needs more current but nobody is saying what servos they're using and what current the BEC on their ESC is, so how is anyone supposed to know what they need?

I've just measured the current draw on the Align DS410m and the Align DS520. At stall, the DS410m is drawing 0.6A and the DS520 is drawing 1.5A, so if all 4 servos were stalled, there would be a 3.3A draw, leaving 2.7A for the 3GX unit, which would be ample current... but the 3 servos will never be stalled and will probably only ever draw 1/2 of that current... max.. and the 6A rating on my ESC is a continuous rating, with possibly up to 8A for short bursts, and I would expect that current would be enough to run a 90 size heli, never mind a 450?

[tomatwalden]

Gixxer - I guess the true answer is - don't know! More than with v2.1 installed. To be honest, I have no idea what they've changed other than a complete rewrite of the firmware. I don't know what processing unit is in the 3GX, but it's possible that they've changed the Mhz clock rate to cope with the more complex software. I guess until/if Align respond formally, we'll all just be guessing as to how much the power requirement has changed since v2.1

Sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on the power requirements of your heli! I'm less certain of mine, so will probably consider a separate BEC, or change my ESC.

T

[Gixxer]

I'm just worried that the new firmware could have introduced a completely separate issue, and without knowing the setup of those who have experienced problems, it's impossible for me to determine whether or not a lack of current was the cause of these problems. I guess it is going to be a case of waiting for an official statement from Align.

[Stevec]

As a 250 dfc pro owner I got fed up with it falling out of the sky, even from a hover, so I upgraded to an external BEC. the thing I assume has changed like Tom said is the servo refresh rate must have been upped resulting in more constant little corrections, thus a higher current draw.

unfortunately a lot of people found out about the 250's habits a while ago so many are running external BEC's already, mine added about 10g to the flying weight so although it isn't ideal it doesn't randomly reset anymore and for my flying level is fine.

I have downloaded the v3 sw now so will update this evening...

/Steve

[tomatwalden]

Anybody got any good advice on an external BEC ?

[tourerjim]

The 250 DFC with 3GX has more motor torque than if you had beastx, I went from 3GX to beastx & back to 3GX & without a doubt its more got more motor torque.

[coolice]

This is the part I'm not understanding... "Needs more current"... than what?

I keep reading that it needs more current but nobody is saying what servos they're using and what current the BEC on their ESC is, so how is anyone supposed to know what they need?

I've just measured the current draw on the Align DS410m and the Align DS520. At stall, the DS410m is drawing 0.6A and the DS520 is drawing 1.5A, so if all 4 servos were stalled, there would be a 3.3A draw, leaving 2.7A for the 3GX unit, which would be ample current... but the 3 servos will never be stalled and will probably only ever draw 1/2 of that current... max.. and the 6A rating on my ESC is a continuous rating, with possibly up to 8A for short bursts, and I would expect that current would be enough to run a 90 size heli, never mind a 450?

Hey Buddy.

You should be ok at 6 amps continous, I think the main problem stems from Align ESC user's that only have 3 amps continous to play with.

I wouldn't use 6 amps on a 90 class machine though, the Align BT6 struggles at 6 amps to power the flight gear of a 600E/N on the bench. Of course this is since the FBL revolution, on a flybarred heli the strain going back to the servo's is reduced and so current draw is less. This is shown in the amount of 2.4ghz issues that have been seen when using the Align 2in1's, which were ok on the machine before hand, but give problems after upgrading to FBL.

What ESC do you have out of interest?
.

[Stevec]

3gx version 3 software update out

The castle bec seems to be the solid favourite. I am using a hextronic one from hobby king but I don't think I'd use that on a 450 or bigger.

Castle bec is about 20 quid iirc.

Obviously there is the new ESC they have with the huge capacity bec internally but that is the expensive option.

/Steve

[tourerjim]

Castle do a esc 25 amp same size as the Align which I have now ordered with Align Trex

[tourerjim]

I'm just wondering by using external bec that you could poss have the same systems if you over use the lipo, i seem to remember on another forum that this was the case & you should use a separate lipo for the beck.???

[Stevec]

I think you should hit LVC on the ESC before you lose power to the servos, but you may need to set up the esc with a higher cut off or the BEC with a lower one..
/Steve