'feel' comparison of different FBL systems

[trillian]

I know there have been a zillion threads about what is 'better', VBar vs BeastX etc.

My question to those that have flown both the BeastX and VBar on a similar heli; What is it about the VBar that is better? I know it's a subjective thing but I'm curious if there is some consensus about the way they feel in flight, the way they react to certain situations etc. essentially where the difference lies and how great the difference is.

So far I have only flown the BeastX so that's my point of reference and all my other helis are flybarred. To me, a well trimmed flybarred 90 that is setup for FAI type flying is about as stable as anyone could ask for, so that's also a benchmark for me.

The BeastX is on my Trex 500 and given the small size of the 500 I think the BeastX does an excellent job. I have tried the BX on a .50 nitro and that seemed pretty good as well but I didn't spend that much time with it.

I'm also happy to hear any flight comparisons between the BeastX and any of the other FBL units out there.

[KevDavies]

The Spartan is due out any time now. When I go fbl I wont even consider anything else because I already know, without even trying a Vortex, that it will be the best bar none

[raptorheli2]

this is one of those things that it is difficult to explain and no one really understands why the high end fbl systems are better until they get one themselves.

i have took a BX off the same heli and put a vbar on at the time and the difference was just night and day. not that the BX was bad just that the vbar was better.

the best thing i can suggest is take the jump and buy whatever one floats your boat and see for yourself.

cheers

[trillian]

The Spartan is due out any time now. When I go fbl I wont even consider anything else because I already know, without even trying a Vortex, that it will be the best bar none

I am keen to see what the feedback will be once it gets in circulation a bit.

But this raises another question; Is the difference between different systems as great when the size of the helicopter increases? My thought would be that the bigger the heli the less difference. The subtle differences you may notice on a 550 or 600 will seem less noticeable on a .90 because the mass of it makes it more stable to begin with.

[KevDavies]

Well I have my fbl head here built up ready to roll. I just need a controller. I intend to do a side by side comparison with FB and the vortex fbl at the field and get someone else to fly it aswell and give their thoughts too. Im intrigued as to hether a fbl unit can feel as good as the mechanical solution to the same problem

[milly0812]

'feel' comparison of different FBL systems

What is it about the VBar that is better?.

For me it is the tail, I could never get it how I like it with the beast and the first flight with vbar was a revelation for me. On the same 600 It just held perfectly with no tweaks. Of course it was probably my lack of knowledge of the unit or my unwillingness to mess with settings. It only showed itself once I learnt fast backwards flight as I swore by beast x for 18 months before changing.

[Guest]

I'm pretty terrible at detecting subtle differences - well, I can feel them, but I can't pin down exactly what they are. And I don't experiment much. So this opinion won't have a lot of value But I have flown both on 450 and 550. I thought the beastie was fine, then after the briefest of goes on someone's vbar I realised that I had never really been connected to my model before and was sold on vbars straight away It just does precisely what I tell it, immediately. Maybe the beastx can be tuned that way too..

I then got a 600 Pro and that was my second awakening really, maybe because my 550 was a bit overweight and had to have a nose-down attitude which made transitions complicated, but the 600 doesn't require anywhere near as many corrections. Seems to fly itself.

Powerful/light 600 + vbar is a world away from my fat 550 bx!

edit: Also now using the FASST receiver at its high data rate, no idea if that has an effect or not..

[dani_r]

The Spartan is due out any time now. When I go fbl I wont even consider anything else because I already know, without even trying a Vortex, that it will be the best bar none

That's a pretty big statement right there! lol

Without even putting it on a heli or even flying a FBL system? As a pure matter of interest, how can you back that up? How do you 'know' it will be the best?

[Varelco]

When I go fbl I wont even consider anything else because I already know, without even trying a Vortex, that it will be the best bar none

Very bold, considering you've never flown flybarless before.


I flew my BeastX 550 for about a year, never flown any other FBL unit. I then bought a logo and fitted a Vbar to it and after a few flights of getting used to the Logo I realised how much different it was to the beastX on my 550. The flybarred 90 feel would definitely be more of a feel you get off the vbar.

Its quite difficult to explain, the vbar felt a bit more natural and fluid, the helicopter felt a bit more settled and you feel very connected (the increased size of the logo will add to that), the beastx does seem to have a more robotic feel to it for sure, the differences are noticeable.

The tail on the vbar is definitely on another level, there is nothing wrong with the beastx tail and I thought it was very good (it is tbh), but after flying the vbar you instantly notice the difference. The piro consistency is very good when chucking the heli around, it stops and holds better. Forza explained how much he liked the Vbar way before I got one and listed all the differences which he liked about it, after trying it for myself, I can safely say that everything he said was true. Id love to put a vbar on my 550 for true like for like comparison, but i dont have the money to do so.


Take it with a pitch of salt though, my experience is limited. The FBL unit is only one factor in how a heli flies, how well you have it set up is a completely different ball game... (my beastx could be set up rubbish for all i know lol) not to mention the heli itself blades, HS etc etc...

Im no Vbar fan boy, I will jump ship if something better comes along, but I would highly recommend one for any of your models

[trillian]

For me it is the tail, I could never get it how I like it with the beast and the first flight with vbar was a revelation for me. On the same 600 It just held perfectly with no tweaks. Of course it was probably my lack of knowledge of the unit or my unwillingness to mess with settings. It only showed itself once I learnt fast backwards flight as I swore by beast x for 18 months before changing.

When I had the BeastX on my Ely.Q the tail wasn't quite right, it was just a little 'mushy' for lack of a better word but held fairly well. I didn't get too deep into it but did play with a few settings. Now with the exact same BeastX on the 500 the tail is rock solid, it has been great from day one, so I don't know what was going on there.

[KevDavies]

That's a pretty big statement right there! lol

Without even putting it on a heli or even flying a FBL system? As a pure matter of interest, how can you back that up? How do you 'know' it will be the best?

Pure faith in Angelos. When the D760 first came out there were nay sayers etc, It wont be that good, its a small company, its british etc. including myself I hasten to add. But the product was absolutely amazing. It was a real game changer in respect to tail control gyros.

And knowing the time and care Angelos puts into designing anything I am confident that the Vortex will be the best on the market. If I am wrong I will eat a tramps string vest!

[forza]

I am keen to see what the feedback will be once it gets in circulation a bit.

But this raises another question; Is the difference between different systems as great when the size of the helicopter increases? My thought would be that the bigger the heli the less difference. The subtle differences you may notice on a 550 or 600 will seem less noticeable on a .90 because the mass of it makes it more stable to begin with.

The difference was night and day when I vbarred my 700n. I was concerned as well because the 700 is very vibey and I hadn't had 100% success with the tail gyros I tried but no issues with the fbl unit.

[Delarado]

I have two vbars, one on a nitro 700 DFC, one on a Goblin 700 electic. I've got a 500EFL pro that I've used a 3gx on (All flavours and versions) an AR7200BX and a spartan vortex (Got one of the pre release units)

The Vbar beats any other flybarless system hands down as far as tail performance goes for me. However, I hadn't had much time to play with the vortex (maybe only 20 packs)

The 3gx is entry level, so I wont say much about it. Thats exactly what it is. You get interactions, the tail isnt great, but for general flight its fine.

The AR7200BX was a revelation for me as it was the next thing I tried after the 3gx. More stable (The 3gx for example when inverted hovering may hover hands off. Or it may decide to just "Fall off" and the heli will veer off quite violently)

The tail on the BX was also a lot better than 3gx, and the cyclics felt nicer. It just felt more controllable and chuckable, and I loved the 500EFL pro on the BX, and still do (EVen though its not on there any more)

Then I put a Vbar on my 700's. Wow. Another revelation. Cyclics are not a whole lot different to BX (Unless you tune them to be) But I will say it does seem to roll more axially, it feels like theres less interactions, but that could just be my fingers.

The thing I did notice though was tail consistency and quality. No bounce backs, ever. No whipping until you get to the mechanical limits of the tail (E.g fast forward flight into wind with piros where the tail doesnt have enough thrust to spin it round quick enough)

One of the first things I did with the vbar was play with the tail, because I could feel the quality. Full speed piros with pitch pumps no problem, full speed piros with reversals at each pitch pump? No problem. Like clockwork. No speeding up or slowing down. Whereas with the BX if you full piro pitch pump you could feel the tail slowing down a bit as you loaded up the head and the gyros took a while to catch up.

Then I put the VX1 on my 500EFL pro, and its also great. Feels quite a bit different to the BX, but I am still tuning it - and tuning is a complete doddle with the datapod. I cannot get rid of a little tail bounce on stops just yet, and I havent quite got it feeling exactly how I Want it just yet, however I will say my motivation to play with it isnt great seeing as I have two Vbarred models that fly perfectly.

If I put anything like the same amount of time into tuning the VX1 as I do my Vbars then I'm sure they will be at least just as good.

I guess what Im saying is:

BeastX - Great
Vbar - Better than beastx. Mainly because of the nigh-perfect tail and slightly easier tuning (I find it easier to check boxes and change numbers on a laptop than to go through parameter menus etc) I also like that you can save setups and use bank switching (for example when tuning my Vbars I have "as it was" on bank 1, a small adjustment to whatever I Want on bank 2, and a larger adjustment on bank 3 and switch in flight, I dont think you can do this with the beastx)
VX1 - Better than beastx. Not as good for me out of the box as my Vbars were, however it is on a totally different model so not fair to compare to Vbars really. Better than BeastX out of the box once tail tweaked properly (when I first put it on I had a 90 degree tail bounce on stops and harsh kicking on pitch pumps)

[dani_r]

Pure faith in Angelos. When the D760 first came out there were nay sayers etc, It wont be that good, its a small company, its british etc. including myself I hasten to add. But the product was absolutely amazing. It was a real game changer in respect to tail control gyros.

And knowing the time and care Angelos puts into designing anything I am confident that the Vortex will be the best on the market. If I am wrong I will eat a tramps string vest!

Fair enough! However, you have now just put that down on the internet! So if it turns out not to be so good, guess who's eating tramps clothing?

[KevDavies]

Oh yes, ill back it up with actions (Angelos you better not fail me! I know where Didcot is!) now just need to start saving!