other companies going to follow VControl?

[JamieD]

Just out of interest and looking to future radio options, does anyone think that the other companies Spektrum, Futaba, Graupner will follow Mikado in creating a similar system to the VControl with integrated flybarless system adjustment?

For example, Spektrum has the AR7200BX with BeastX. Surely they could just wire-in a few extra channels between then receiver and the gyro to adjust the BeastX remotely and there you have it!

I know the VControl owners will say "why not just buy a VControl?" I'm just curious as to what the other companies are doing. Spektrum don't seem to have made any advances in technology recently.

[stargazer]

Unless your a manufacturer that makes a popular flybarless unit I cannot see why they would bother.Futaba made a good flybarless system but I Can't remember the last time I see one on a Heli.Like you say Beast X is popular so there could be a possibility they would develop one with Spectrum.

[gazmk2]

You can tune a futaba gy750 from a futaba 14sg TX. Spartan integration in the jeti too! Of course both of these two have the advantage of being based on full house transmitters so you still have the full range of features for other aircraft types etc.

[Planehazza]

If I had hundreds spare I'd love to get a v control to try it, but I don't really see the point. Most of the time once it's set up and tuned you don't need to change anything and if you do, the Vbar app and dongle more than suffices. The cgy750 is fiddly to set up but it flies great and many of the main settings can be done on the tx.

Bank switching is something I had set up but never actually used it as I always fly in the same style in idle up 2.

[bigpops]

Jeti is the only potential competitor at the moment. That's the only other radio that has a real 2 way data communication between the Tx and the Rx. Unless JR, Spektrum and Futaba go back to the drawing board with their RF system, I don't think flight controller integration at the same level as Vbar/Jeti will exist.

Our club chairman just got a Jeti after he couldn't get to grips with the V control (I know, right!). I'm not sure he'll find Jeti much easier. At the weekend, I tried for an hour to get it set up with cleanflight using Xbus or PPM and couldn't get either to work. I'm sure it was user error.

I'm eager to see the proposed Vbar Receivers. Apparently you'll be able to output Sbus, PPM, UDI or PWM for servos via macrocells. If that turns out to be true, you'll be able to use the V control to fly whatever FBL system you like, although without the full setup and tuning options allowed by V control and Jeti, obviously.

Spektrum, the ones who brought 2.4GHz for RC to the masses, are now the ones lagging furthest behind. I moved from Spektrum two and a half years ago because they didn't have a single unit full range receiver with single line output (like Sbus) and telemetry. 2016, and they still don't, but they do do a receiver with SRXL (Xbus) finally, and they made it primarily for race quads.

[Grumpy]

Just out of interest and looking to future radio options, does anyone think that the other companies Spektrum, Futaba, Graupner will follow Mikado in creating a similar system to the VControl with integrated flybarless system adjustment?

Yes, I'm sure they will eventually. Similar integration is already available for various FBL units with Jeti transmitters.

I know the VControl owners will say "why not just buy a VControl?"

That ones easy.. Because not everyone wants to use a Neo FBL controller in everything. Many people want to fly fixed wing (planks) too and the Neo is just ridiculously expensive for that purpose. If Mikado made a range of receivers at various price points then it may be a viable option for more people but that's unlikely to happen because Mikado stripped all the functionality out of the Tx that you would need for using more conventional receivers.

[waveydavey]

I can't see Spektrum doing anything along those lines, they sell enough to the rest of the RC world not to worry about half a dozen heli pilots. V bar apart from their helis is Mikados only output so it probably makes sense to them to corner the market as much as they can with one brand. Spektrum have too many other lines to not to worry about Vcontrol functionality. I don't know Jetti but it's an expensive Tx for what you get, Spartan VX1 integration, a fbl unit that is sadly not holding it's own in the market, just can't really see the point. It's a shame and it hurts to say it but if you want V Control functionality then get your wallet out and replace your old fbl units with the Neo and get a V Control. I didn't mention Futaba which I use, can't see it again too much input for so little return, their FBL didn't take off (no pun intended) so why wold they bother. The only alternative will be the K Control coming to an auction site near you shortly

[bigpops]

That ones easy.. Because not everyone wants to use a Neo FBL controller in everything. Many people want to fly fixed wing (planks) too and the Neo is just ridiculously expensive for that purpose. If Mikado made a range of receivers at various price points then it may be a viable option for more people but that's unlikely to happen because Mikado stripped all the functionality out of the Tx that you would need for using more conventional receivers.

Everyone I know that owns a V-control also has another radio for non-heli stuff, myself included.

EDIT: Mikado didn't strip any functionality out of the radio at all, other than no trim switches. The radio runs apps. When they get their stand alone receivers out (I heard August, but I'll believe it when I see it), I'm sure there'll be a bunch of apps to compliment them.

[Peteski]

Everyone I know that owns a V-control also has another radio for non-heli stuff, myself included.

The point is that you don't have any choice but to use another radio for non-heli stuff as it stands today, which is not a great selling point for heli & plank flyers. I can certainly see the attraction of Vcontrol integration, but I don't see it as particularly essential either. I think if I was running Vbar FBL I would definitely buy into Vcontrol as a no-brainer, but I'm not going to start again from scratch for what it offers.

Jeti looks very nice too, but I'm not convinced about the cost vs benefits over a simple Spektrum setup. The only limitations I have in my flying are with my own brain and thumbs!

As for the future, it's not clear whether Mikado are setting a trend for all to follow. Probably not as there are so many competing FBL units on the market that are independent of the Tx vendors. So the Jeti model of integrating with multiple FBL units seems like a better solution to me.

[waveydavey]

As for the future, it's not clear whether Mikado are setting a trend for all to follow. Probably not as there are so many competing FBL units on the market that are independent of the Tx vendors. So the Jeti model of integrating with multiple FBL units seems like a better solution to me.

I would have agreed with you a year or so ago Pete, but I'm not so sure now. VBar must have a large slice of the available pie, the rest not so. BeastX, a good little unit but surpassed by others. Lifted their game slightly and the tie in with Align might help sell a few more units but the gap between the original unit and them offering more functionality people have moved on. Spirit and BD, I havent got experience of them and people do swear by them but got to be low volume, same as brain and the rest of the also rans. It's a shame but a FBL and controller that is flown by the pilots most of us try to emulate is naturally going to do well, and it has done. I might try VControl, recently gone back to Vbar due to lack of interest from Spartan in their unit, so a natural step for me, still hate the PC thing and the datapod/VX1 was such a great combination it will be hard to beat IMO

[Grumpy]

FWIW the Jeti supports integration with a few FBL controller, those I know of are the Spartan, the Spirit / Spirit Pro and I think also the new iKon/Brain 2 should have it available shortly. To be honest though I personally don't see integration as such a big deal when most new FBL have Bluetooth support so you can use a smart phone or tablet to set them up... maybe I'm missing something?

The 'apps' thing is interesting though.. So you could just use a 'fixed wing app' that would provide the 'inside the Tx' programming functionality similar to what normal transmitters have? Only hitch with that is that Mikado being Mikado they are likely to charge a hefty fee for it.

[Peteski]

I would have agreed with you a year or so ago Pete, but I'm not so sure now. VBar must have a large slice of the available pie, the rest not so. BeastX, a good little unit but surpassed by others. Lifted their game slightly and the tie in with Align might help sell a few more units but the gap between the original unit and them offering more functionality people have moved on. Spirit and BD, I havent got experience of them and people do swear by them but got to be low volume, same as brain and the rest of the also rans. It's a shame but a FBL and controller that is flown by the pilots most of us try to emulate is naturally going to do well, and it has done. I might try VControl, recently gone back to Vbar due to lack of interest from Spartan in their unit, so a natural step for me, still hate the PC thing and the datapod/VX1 was such a great combination it will be hard to beat IMO

You could be right, maybe I've completely underestimated Mikado's FBL market share. The only reasons I went with BeastX just over a year ago was because of its rescue functionality (Neo hadn't been released at that point) and to a lesser extent an easy setup with my Spektrum DX8. If I was making the same decision today I could well have gone straight down the Vcontrol path with Neo, but to do that now I would be literally starting again from scratch. But maybe in the long term I might still bite that bullet, so I guess it depends how the FBL market plays out over the next few years. MSH seem to be making a big play with their new unit (not that it seems to do anything ground breaking) and Spirit seems to be gaining ground although I could see that business model vanishing into thin air over night. I personally think Spartan are dead in the water without rescue and BD seem to have stagnated after being initially ahead of the game. BeastX also seem to have been very conservative in their development and I'm surprised they have clung onto their clicky-blinky interface for so long. Not that it's actually bad, but it is a bit clunky to use.

[bigpops]

The 'apps' thing is interesting though.. So you could just use a 'fixed wing app' that would provide the 'inside the Tx' programming functionality similar to what normal transmitters have? Only hitch with that is that Mikado being Mikado they are likely to charge a hefty fee for it.

That's exactly right. You could have a basic fixed wing app with 4x servo outputs. Then another app to use if it's a wing with elevons. An app to add glider functionality with crow and throttle mixing and all that. Another app if it's a V-tail, and so on.

Not sure about the cost though. I think the infrastructure to charge for the apps exists, though everything on there at the moment is free.

[Peteski]

To be honest though I personally don't see integration as such a big deal when most new FBL have Bluetooth support so you can use a smart phone or tablet to set them up... maybe I'm missing something?

In theory I agree, it shouldn't be an issue. But in practice Spirit dragged their feet so long with their promised iOS interface that I lost patience in waiting. Do they even have it now? I actually prefer the idea of setup directly through the Tx, but it's not a deal breaker for me either way.

[waveydavey]

Not sure about VBars market share it's just a feeling, if I look round the club most advanced pilots are using V Control to good effect so I used that as a gauge. VBar in their defence have produced, and researched something that appears in the heli world to work and something that pilots want. I fly vbar now and it's easy for me to add a V Control Rx to it and not have to change too much. They are expensive and it hurt me to pay for a downgrade recently but I made my choice and have to take it like a man.

I like the BeastX interface, always have. A quick reference card in the Tx case and good to go. It's a shame they never got round to Spektrum satellite integration for full range, I would probably have remained with them as I really like the cyclic although the tail could have a mind of it's own at times