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[aamacgregor]

This is my first post so I'll give a little history before asking my questions. If you want to skip the history and go straight for the questions, then look for the line of '#' symbols.

I always wanted an RC helicopter when I was a kid, but they were too expensive. I then grew up a little, went to university, got married (while I was doing my PhD) and then got a job. I then realised at this point that this was perhaps the first time I could really spare money to spend on new expensive hobby (my wife doesn't spend all that much - not compared to some anyway, she tends to buy clothes, handbags, shoes and stuff whereas I tend to by more expensive things less frequently).

So the year was 2007, and I wanted to get into flying helicopters... so my first port of call with the thought "start simple and cheap" was amazon. I looked at those £20 helicopters (at the time they were 2ch), I was about to buy one when I noticed a 3ch helicopter and then a 4ch helicopter... I then thought about it and figured I was going about it all wrong and should look at a proper model shop. I was just about to buy a 4 channel helicopter when I saw a deal on an E-sky Belt CP 6 channel 3D helcopter - "What's that???" I thought. After a little looking around I was convinced that I "needed" a 6 channel helicopter - they looked so much more fun! So I phoned up the shop (Heliguy) and thought I'd ask a few questions. Realising that I was a beginner, they tried very hard to discourage me from getting the Belt CP, instead they tried to get me to start with something simpler and work my way up (in hindsight I should have listened to their advice, but hey, the story must go on...) . Not convinced with their logical argument, I promised that I would fly with a simulator first; so I ordered the Belt CP - I mean surely flying a helicopter won't be that hard right?

When the package arrived, I got the transmitter, set it up for use with the PC (had to move a couple of DIP switches) plugged it into the computer with the USB lead that I bought at the same time, installed FMS and started trying to fly by simulation. I quickly realised that it was harder to fly a helicopter than I thought it would be. Unfortunately, the realisation didn't hit me hard enough to discourage me from trying to fly the Belt CP in the living room once the battery had charged... my wife hid behind the glass door separating the lounge from the hallway exclaiming "Are you sure about this?"... yeah, it wasn't one of my brightest moments... thankfully the damage to the house wasn't too extensive, although I did manage to wreck the rotor blades and main gear in the helicopter.

A couple of days later the spares arrived. I fixed the helicopter and this time took the hint that flying it in the garden was a much better idea. Over the next few weeks, I didn't get much opportunity to fly the thing because of the weather, but when I could fly it, I got to the point where I could hover the helicopter 6" very well and move it around the garden OK as long as the tail was facing me (I use to walk round behind it). I found an online "how to" tutorial, and it said that once I could hover the helicopter properly at various heights and walk round the garden behind it, that I should try moving the tail 45 degrees one way, back to zero, then 45 degrees the other way. I decided to ignore this advice and attempt to rotate it 360 degrees while hovering it about 1ft from the ground. Unfortunately, I failed the maneuver... to this day I don't really know what went wrong, all I know is that I bent the tail boom and wrecked another set of rotor blades. At the time, other things in life took priority, and the helicopter got shelved for a few years. I changed jobs and my wife and I moved from a 3 bedroom house in the country with a nice sized garden to a two bedroom flat in a nice area in the city (Glasgow). The lack of a garden has meant that the Belt CP has remained in the store cupboard and hasn't been used.

However, last year I thought that I'd get a Walkera V100D01 for flying round the flat. I've got to be honest there isn't a lot of room even for that, but I really want to fly an RC helicopter. I can fly it around as long as the tail is facing me. I must admit, since buying it I have only flown it about a dozen times, and haven't been adventurous for fear of breaking the little thing.

Anyway, the other day, I was looking up at the book-shelf and thought to myself, that it is a real shame that I have spent all that money on RC helicopters and not spend the time to learn to fly them properly. So I looked online, and decided to buy a proper flight sim in order to learn the basics - FMS was ok, but not great, although, to be fair it is free and I only used for 30 minutes the day I bought the Belt CP. In addition, I never liked the 35MHz controller/receiver combo that came with the Belt CP.

So today I've come up with a solution. Perhaps I'm nuts, but I've just ordered a Spektrum DX7S/AR8000 combo from Heliguy, since there is a special offer where I get the Phoenix flight sim for free. I also bought some new rotor blades and tail boom for the Belt-CP so that I can get it up and running again.

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My plan is to learn to fly with the Phoenix flight sim, and try out some of the stuff I learn on the Walkera V100D01 in the flat. However, once I am comfortable flying around in the Sim and with the V100D01 in the flat, I would like to start flying the Belt-CP. With regards to flying the Belt CP, here are my questions:

1) This first question is possibly answered elsewhere, but I have included it anyway - so if you don't want to answer it then skip onto the next question. There are some grounds near my flat at Jordanhill College where I could perhaps have a go at flying the Belt CP. In practice though, am I allowed to fly it in public grounds? I'm planning on getting insurance with the SAA first, but are there other/better places to go for insurance?

2) Is there any advantage to me traveling to a helicopter club in order to learn to fly the Belt-CP properly for the first time?

3) I use to race RC cars and spent a lot on a fast steering servo which made the world of difference. I found the servo's in the Belt CP are not the fastest/strongest - I remember a noticeable lag when flying the Belt CP, does this really matter when I am learning? or should I invest in some better servo's? Dispite my trail of purchases on the RC helicopter front, I'm not wanting to spend unnecessarily at the moment - not after my purchase today anyway.

4) The Lipo battery pack that I have for the Belt-CP has been sitting around discharged for just over 4 years, do you think it will be OK (is it safe to try it), or should I buy another one?

Kind regards,

Andrew

[Swashbuckler]

1. As long as there isn't a byelaw on the park you should be ok however, flying in public spaces brings a whole lot of extra problems. People, dog walkers, annoying er I mean inquisitive kids. At least have somebody with you to warn you of approaching victims.

2. Yes and no. Yes it's always great to have experienced people to assist. It won't be anymore beneficial than joining somebody experienced online with Phoenix. All they can really tell you is learn to hover in all orientations (tail, left, right, nose) first before progressing to foward flight. In the long run it will make you a better pilot and save you money in crashes.

3. The lag was probably more due to the 35mhz system, your new kit will seem more responsive. Leave the servos alone until you can hover in all orientations.

4. If it was stored at 50% charge it will probably be useable. One pack is never enough though so get some more anyway. I would suggest another 3. Test the pack you have with a voltmeter, if it is below 2.8v per cell or any individual cell is below 2.8v I would discard it. Do a search on here for safe disposal of lipos to do it properly.


What you are going to find fun is programming a tx for a cp heli for the first time. Again there are a lot of guides on here and other places. That's where a club can help, but again not essential.

Also beware of the esky charger, they do not terminate the charge and can overcharge the lipo causing them to swell and eventually burst into flame. Always be present when you have a lipo on charge.

Good luck, have fun, be safe and cautious especially flying indoors. (not recommended with anything bigger than a MCPX)

[aamacgregor]

Thanks Swashbuckler, that is a really helpful post.

I might try and find somewhere more secluded than the college grounds - I wouldn't want to crash into anyone. Either way, I'll follow your advice and make sure I take someone with me when the time comes.

I reinstalled FMS while I'm waiting for Phoenix to arrive, I'm getting there with the four orientations, although for whatever reason, at the final point of landing I tend to panic about ~40% of the time with the left and right orientations, nose not so much (~10%), but it does still happen - every now and then I confuse nose and tail orientations and crash with the tail orientation, which is worrying but a rare incident (~2% expensive though if it wasn't a simulator). I guess practice is the key - this time yesterday the nose orientation and my brain didn't agree with each other, so I'm making progress. I expect it will take a lot of practice before I can confidently fly around in all four orientations in the simulator, especially if Phoenix is harder. While in flight, I've been trying to practice a figure of eight in both directions - although both directions of figure of eight have a left turn and a right turn, I'm finding the one that starts with a left turn, harder than the one that starts with a right turn - I keep ending up with a rise in the middle to the point that the helicopter stops and sometimes even goes backwards. Practice should fix that though I guess.

Thanks for the advice with the servo's I hadn't considered that the 35MHz system could be playing a major part in the lag.

I'll do a voltage check on the battery, but I expect it might need to be put in the bin, since I remember discharging it the last time I used it. Based on what you said about the charger, I think I should probably buy a new charger when I get some batteries.

Thanks once again.

Andrew

[psychosaffa]

hey Andrew, welcome to RCHA!
good shout on the dx7s and phoenix!! if you wanted a wee heli for indoors id reccomend a msr, they can be bought for peanuts 2nd hand, bounce really well and will bind to your dx7s. youll get bored with it in no time, but it will teach you allot in that little time.
Regarding driving to a club, id highly reccomend it, just beware of which clubs you go to as some of them are just right stuck up old basterds stuck in their way.

where abouts in Glasgow are you?
also hope you have deep pockets, this hobby is crazy addictive!!

[aamacgregor]

Hi psychosaffa, I might look out for an mSR, it will probably more robust than my Walkera V100D01. The V100D01 is a nice small flybarless helicopter, but it's pretty fragile, not that it won't fly, but I have crashed it into the dining chairs a few times, the door post a couple of times, and it's also hit the wall once or twice. So far there hasn't been any major damage, but it does have some damage:

- Each servo arm should have three potential sites for screwing in a ball joint for the link to attach to, but in one accident, I broke the end off one of the servo arms and had to move the link in further towards the servo, this probably hasn't helped stability.
- One of the rotor blades is dented in a couple of places which surely can't help - the V100D01 has a 3 axis gyro, which I think is compensating by increasing the speed of the motor attached to the tail rotor.
- The helicopter now has some wobble. I can see vibration in the rotor head, so I expect the main shaft is bent, but perhaps the damaged rotor blades my be playing a part in this problem.

Anyway, I ordered the V100D01 from Helipal, and I haven't found anywhere in the UK that sells them. That said, having had a look at Buzzflyer, the Buzzflyer FE looks to be a rebadged V100D01 (the BF4i tx also looks to be a rebadged version of the Walkera 2403 tx that came with my V100D01), so I expect I could get some spares from there. That said, if the mSR is more robust (if nothing else, it should be more stable), then it might be worth me investing in one.

I started looking into the idea of joining an RC helicopter club on Saturday, at which point I looked up a few, Waterfoot was one of them. I've read a couple of good things about the Waterfoot club, one of which was on this forum somewhere. So, I think my plan is as follows

1) Repair the damage to the Belt CP and replace the E-sky receiver with the AR8000. Check that the DX7S and AR8000 aren't faulty by powering up the Belt CP (assuming the battery isn't dead, which it probably is). I guess I should be able to do that on Wednesday evening.
2) Learn to fly on the Phoenix flight sim - don't know how long that will take (couple of weeks perhaps? Although that might be a naive estimate)
3) Learn to fly the V001D01 around the flat - that said, I'm not convinced my living room is big enough to do anything meaningful, so this part might get skipped.
4) Take the Belt CP to Waterfoot and hopefully start flying it there. I expect it will be at least a month before I set foot there though, since as Swashbuckler pointed out, I probably should buy some more batteries and also a new charger. Sadly, I've more than emptied my "play fund" for this month, so will have to wait until next month before buying anything else. I might then have to wait another month before I can afford the fees for the insurance and club membership, but we'll see.

I live in Jordanhill (west end). Yeah, I can see this helicopter thing could get pretty expensive. When I use to race RC cars, I ended up spending about £300-400 a year on repairs, spares and upgrades, some months I wouldn't buy anything except a new set of tyres, others it might have been involved in a high speed accident (high enough to snap the carbon fibre chasis and destroy the front gear housing), other months I would perhaps get an upgrade or replacement (new ESC, motor, battery, etc.). I use to think that £300-400 a year was a lot of money to spend on a hobby, but I get the feeling that if I'm not careful, this helicopter hobby could make my RC car days look like child's play. The thing that worries me is that I'm already considering what to replace the Belt CP with - I've been looking at the GAUI 425, or perhaps the X5 - the worst part is, that would be fine if I could actually fly an RC helicopter properly, but I can't yet! I think I need help and I haven't even started.

[aamacgregor]

Hi CPN,

I take the point about the Belt CP, I'll change it as soon as I am able. The thing is, I need to do things gradually, since if I suddenly spend a massive amount of money in one go, my wife will probably start to get worried.

I'm happy buying a kit. If I take it to a club, then hopefully someone could check the setup before I start flying it. I have considered buying a GAUI Hurricane 425, since I've read good things about it, and I can get a kit for £99 (although it doesn't have any electronics with it at all at that price).

Gaui Hurricane 425 Kit --- BuzzFlyer UK

I figured that I might be able to transfer the electronics from the Belt CP, and that might be a cheap way of getting a better helicopter... although I understand, I would need to upgrade the electronics to get the best out of it. Do you think some of the problem with the Belt CP is the gyro? Or is it more the play in the linkages?

[psychosaffa]

dude, be prepared to spend 3-£400 in one go!!
the x5 is nice but for a beginner id suggest a align heli as most of the spares come 2 in a pack.

for now, forget about a bigger heli, if you can fly the belt cp you can fly anything!!! thats if you can actually get it flying, lol! blade 130x looks good but it will take more than a year for spares to be easilly available.

i have 2 trex 500s as thats the biggest i can afford to crash, i also dont have the time to join a club at the moment so just fly in the park or the glenifer braes in paisley. more than welcome to fly with me even though were pretty much on the same flying level.

[aamacgregor]

dude, be prepared to spend 3-£400 in one go!!
the x5 is nice but for a beginner id suggest a align heli as most of the spares come 2 in a pack.

for now, forget about a bigger heli, if you can fly the belt cp you can fly anything!!! thats if you can actually get it flying, lol! blade 130x looks good but it will take more than a year for spares to be easilly available.

i have 2 trex 500s as thats the biggest i can afford to crash, i also dont have the time to join a club at the moment so just fly in the park or the glenifer braes in paisley. more than welcome to fly with me even though were pretty much on the same flying level.

The trex 500 looks really nice, but it's far more expensive than the GAUI 425 and the same size (that said, there might not be much in it by the time the cost of the electronics is added to the GAUI). I'll see what I can do with the Belt CP - aside from crash it that is. After that, if I get to the position where I can fly a helicopter in a reasonable fashion, I might look into getting an Align or GAUI helicopter.

Thanks for the offer, if I feel brave enough to go the park with the Belt CP, I'll let you know.