HELP....my Helo has seized!!

[jimbaker81]

can anyone help me with a little problem that i came across today:
after buying a brand new Ergo .46 i tried to start it today in my garden. the Helo had never been flown before so i filled it with fuel, tested the glow plug etc.
after connecting the glow plug and charging it to about 2 amps i tried to start it with the starter but it refused to fire.
i put this down to it never having been used before so i continued to turn the engine and could see fuel travelling around the pipes so knew something was happening.
i continued this for about 30 seconds but still the engine refused to catch and i stopped. when i tried again to turn the engine over again it wouldnt move at all! it appears to have seized up and the thing hasnt even been off the ground yet. please could somebody assure me that i havent trashed my new Helo before its even been airbourne and possibly suggest some methods of bringing it back from the dead?!
Thanx in advance

[mo]

siezed engine

Hello.
You have simply flooded the motor and locked it up,take the plug out and drain it and hey presto it will come alive.
Mo.

[Raptorite]

Hi Jim,

As mo said the engine appears just to be hydrolocked, take the plug out and the fuel line off and turn it over on the starter to clear the excess fuel from inside the engine.

Be sure to put a rag or something to cover the plug hole as it will shoot fuel out all over the place otherwise 8O

Once you have done that check the plug out of the engine to see if the whole element is lighting up or not, if not replace with a new plug, sometimes a good soaking in fuel can damage the element, so its a good idea to check.

Is the engine brand new out of the box or has it been run before?

What I am trying to get at here is are the needles set correctly in order for the engine to run, if it has been run before and the needles havent been changed since there is a very good chance it will run as it is.

If not, let me know what sort of exhaust you have, and I'll figure out a starting point for the needles for you.

Cheers,

Pete.

[jimbaker81]

thanx for the assurence that i havent trashed it already gang, appreciate it! havent got it going yet but im sure that it will go before too long. ive uploaded pictures of it in my gallery if any1 wants to take a look.
Pete, not sure wot exhaust ive got on it but you might be able to tell from the pictures. the engine has never been run yet, its brand new so he tells me but he does say that he got it all set up when he bought it in the first place. i have played with the needle valve since then however in my efforts to start it so its probably miles away from where it should be by now.if you can tell what exhaust it is then i would definatley appreciate some help with the settings.
thanx again

[Stuart]

The muffler looks like a Yusa muffler, nothing wrong with them. What needle settings have you got on the engine.

[Raptorite]

Hi Jim,

I think Stuart is right, that does look like a yusa muffler on your heli.

Check what needle settings you have first by carefully turning them clockwise measuring how much you turned them before they closed completely.

A good starting point for a muffler like that is 2 and 1/2 turns on both the main and idle needles.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Pete.

[jimbaker81]

Tried to start my Helo again 2day without much success unfortunately. the engine wont turn at all, and i mean at all. its absolutely frozen solid as far as i can tell, my starter wont even turn wen i hook it up. im thinking this might be due to my starter being nackered cos it looks pretty old and wen i connect it to my battery (which i bought the other day) i can stop it easily with my hand which the bloke in the model shop assured me i shouldnt really be able to do.
can any1 shed any light on this theory for me first, then i`ll tackel the valve issue (of which i can only find 1 by the way).

sigh.

these things are beginning to **** me off.

[Stuart]

Start as Pete say's at 2 1/2 turns on the needle I suspect you can easily identify, this needle handles the fuel flow at the higher rpms i.e in the air. A second needle valve is generally on the inside the throttle arm, you may notice a small hole. If you look in there you should see a small screw. This if turned clockwise this will close the valve and lean out the engine (bad news, for new engines), while anti-clockwise i.e as if you are removing it will open the valve and give a richer flow of fuel at the lower rpm i.e. idle.

Most are two turns from the factory, close it fully then turn it back two whole turns, also as you first close it see how many turns it takes.

If you linked upto a 12v DC battery that's fully charged then you shouldn't be able to stop it with your bare hands without extreme pain 8O

If you have croc clips on take it too your car battery and try it i.e. the hand trick but put some gloves on. If you find that the starter is a new beast then you know its your battery. If not, then the starter is the only next place. If you get stuck PM me your home add I've a spare .30 starter that I haven't used in ages, it needs croc clips but I'd be happy to send it if you get stuck.

Its all a challenge, believe me I've had some frustrating times getting my OS91 C-Spec started, and I run 15v DC through my .90 high torque starter. Don't worry once you get the engine started, bedded in and running every week then starting it will be the least of your problems, keeping it one piece becomes the next challenge.

[jimbaker81]

thanx for the offer of the starter stuart, may well take you up on that is it still stands. connected mine up to my car battery just now and although it was slightly more powerfull than when connected to the normal one, i could still stop it with my hand fairly easily.
however i also took the bottom of the engine out just now as well (see my gallery and you`ll see the bit i mean) and with that bit removed was able to turn the engine over extreamly easily.could see the piston moving and im pretty sure that theres no fuel in it now. when i put this bit back on however, it was clearly comming into contact with what i assume is the con rod and is stoping the whole lot moving an inch.
is this how it should be or is something more sinister happening??
thanx again in advance

[Raptorite]

Hi Jim,

If your engine is completely locked up with the back plate (the bit youre talking about on the bottom of the engine) on and is free as anything with it off.

This sounds to me like the fan/clutch has come loose on the top of the crank and has unwound itself up into the clutch bell which when you remove the back plate allows the crank to be moved down slightly and free it up.

The thing to do is take the back plate off again and have a look on the inside surface to see if there is any scoring of the metal, this is a good indication if the crank is hitting the back plate or not.

I tell you what, take a pic of the back plate and put it in your gallery, we'll be able to assist you easier if we can see it for ourselves.

Cheers,

Pete.

[jimbaker81]

ive uploaded a picture of the backplate now and there is pretty obvious scoring all over it. what do you think?

[Raptorite]

Hi Jim,

Yeah, thats pretty much what I thought we would see on the back plate.

The next step is to take the engine right out and have a look at the fan and clutch which are mounted on the top of the crank.

Its my bet that the nut has come loose and unwound the fan off the crank which has forced it down onto the back plate. To get at it you may well have to take the clutch off the top of the fan, once you have done this the nut should be nestled in the middle of the fan assembly.

Take the nut all the way off and then take the fan off too, be careful as some fans have a thread that needs to be unwound and some dont so they just slide off, Im not sure which yours is, so to be sure try unscrewing it.

Once you have everything off the crank, carefully pull it up, or push the bottom of it from inside the crank case, what should happen is it should move fractionally back to its original position.

If you are having trouble doing this you could try putting the fan back on and tighten it down on the crank to pull it up that way.

Once this is done before you refit the engine back into the model, try putting the back plate on and turning the crank by hand to see if it moves freely, if it does its problem solved

Give that a try and let me know how it goes.

Cheers,

Pete.

[Raptorite]

Jim,

One thing I forgot to mention is that when you put the nut back on the crank use some locktite to stop it coming loose again.

Cheers,

Pete.

[Stuart]

No prob's if you need the starter just pm me. How's the engine going now any news.

[jimbaker81]

so far so good guys. Pete, you hit the nail on the head there, did what you suggested and hey presto there was the nut sitting in the fan assembly - im impressed mate, good pickup. did it all late last night so havent had a chance to try and get it started yet but im feeling confident that with a bit of luck it should fire up next time.
another question ive got is about the shelf life of the fuel. ive been reading a little and apparently the explosive element in the fuel (nitro****) can evaporate off after a while. now the fuel that Bob gave me when i bought the Heli had been sat in his garage for the best part of 2 years so is it possible that by now the fuel could be past its 'use by date'? just a thought but he mentioned it today when i saw him in the pub so i thought id get a second opinion.
Cheers
Jim