Learning 3D

[Jetman71]

So its time to move on from simple figure of eights and hovering. I have a copy of Phoenix Sim and been flying the Nano CPX for some time. What's my starting point if I want to transition to simple 3D? Beginner 3D moves?

[cjm180]

Hey

I am also interested in this thread.

Some of the lads down the field suggested I try some stall turns. Once there I progressed to some loops. The loops are good for my training I find as you can do a few things from there.

You can hold the heli at the top of the loop inverted. You can also from there try inverted forward flight.

Also try and roll the heli from inverted at the top of the loop!

1/2 Cuban 8's.

I have also downloaded the Pilot Proficiency Program from RC heli nation:

The RCHN Pilot Proficiency Program - RC Heli Nation

I have started to read the documents, and any move I am unsure about I have youtubed it.

[milly0812]

If I were starting again with the tech available now I would get an fbl with a decent bail out and just go for it. Start high and flick that switch as soon as you feel out of control. Confidence is the major factor and you really don't need to go thru the expense that we did lol

[Jetman71]

If I were starting again with the tech available now I would get an fbl with a decent bail out and just go for it. Start high and flick that switch as soon as you feel out of control. Confidence is the major factor and you really don't need to go thru the expense that we did lol

That might be where I've gone wrong as I just purchased a Blade 180CFX - obviously no bailout option! Going to have to persevere with the Nano CPX and see if I can get the MCPX v2 flying again me thinks.

CJM80 - thanks for the ideas - out of curiosity what you flying?

[cjm180]

Hey

I am just flying whats in my signature, a goblin 570, the 600l and a 450l.

The goblin has only had a maiden so its not yet ready for consistent flight yet.

Most of my flying in the early part of last year was on the 450, second half of 2016 on the 600l.

The goblin is the only heli I have with bailout on the FBL unit. Once the goblin is going and I like the bailout I will change the 600 and 450 for something with bailout I think.

While I am probably in a similar boat to you, I think the bailout is the key. Get it high up, and go for it.

I have been doing some half rolls at the top of my loops and as its a new position for he heli for me I found myself nervous. With the bail out its another think to give me confidence I think.

[Crashalotjoe]

I guess my approach is quite conservative but I don't take anything to the field that I'm not 100% confident of doing in the sim. My flying in real life is always a few steps behind flying in the sim. Bail out is great but I don't rely on it as a training aid (had a couple of expensive bail out fails!).

I started my 3D flying with flips and rolls followed by inverted hover and then inverted flight (tail first and then nose first). A really solid way to get your inverted flight up to scratch is to learn travelling piros (upright first, then inverted) as this really tests your orientation training. Just start with flips, rolls and loops and take your time to get each move as perfect as possible to build your confidence.

[p4ddy]

I still cant do a roll. I could do tic tocs before inverted and inveted circuits and fig 8's before I had the balls to do a 'simple loop'. No matter what I cannot do a roll without a ton of thumb interaction and doing an awfully bad out of control barrel roll? I can do them on the sim though but not for real. I can do half rolls just not full rolls.

[coolice]

Hey buddy.

I would run with similar to what is said in post 2, as long as you are comfortable with fast circuits (left and right handed) then progress on to stall turns. Actually do chandels first I advise, the mechanics are the same as a stall turn but you only pull up 45 degrees rather than 90 (vertical).
This will then lead you onto full stall turns and be less intimidating as the model will not be wanting to fall straight vertically downwards.
As long as your circuits are good and you can put the model where you want it, as well as making the model nice and level in FFF. There is no point pulling a man over if the model is not starting from a level plane, as it will deviate offline and cause you more problems.

Next is the loop, quite a simple manoeuvre to talk about and elegant, but to do one perfectly takes practice. However this sort of manoeuvre can lead on to inverted, as you can hold the model inverted at the top before pulling out and going round again.

Bailout? I do see the allure, cost saving etc but it will do nothing to teach you how to recover from a failed manoeuvre attempt. Ideally think about what you're going to try before hand and also what you will do should it all go wrong and you need to escape.
This is where the flight sim comes in real handy, with some work they can be made to feel relatively close to your own model and thus become more of a tool than a toy.

Always go one mistake high as they say :-)

Ian

[SaneAdam]

The goblin has only had a maiden so its not yet ready for consistent flight yet.

.

If it's had a maiden why would it not be ready for consistent flight yet?!

Or do you mean your not ready to fly consistently with it yet?

Frightened of it? Or just frightened of bending it? Either way helis that make you feel like that will hold back your progress.

[myxiplx]

3D flying is all about orientations. Master your orientations and the tricks come naturally. Knowing your orientations is also key to helping reduce the amount of crashes you make as you work on these more challenging moves.

When I started I loosely followed Slyster's list on helifreak. Upright and inverted orientations and the flip transitions between these are a good solid base to build from, and slow pirouettes are probably the single best manoeuvre to work on. They teach you all your orientations, and also help you transition to pirouetting moves later on.

Perfect all the upright hover orientations (including nose in!)
Start working on forward flight (FF)
Very slow pirouettes in both directions
FF upright circuits and full figure 8's in both directions
FF loops and rolls.. nose in, tail in, sides in
Stationary flips and rolls.. nose in, tail in, sides in
Tic-Tocs (optional.. these can fit anywhere)
Reverse flight upright circuits (and figure 8's)
Perfect all the inverted hover orientations.
Inverted, forward flight circuits and figure 8's
Inverted, reverse flight circuits and figure 8's
Hurricanes. Upright and inverted. FF and RF
Funnels all 8 orientations
Various mobius (to practice transitions)
Now you can start learning stirring moves and begin true 3D flying.

There's also the "From figure-8's to funnels in 6 months" thread on helifreak. That's hugely popular, with a lot of people reporting great success following that technique to start 3D flight.
From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months - HeliFreak

[cjm180]

If it's had a maiden why would it not be ready for consistent flight yet?!

Or do you mean your not ready to fly consistently with it yet?

Frightened of it? Or just frightened of bending it? Either way helis that make you feel like that will hold back your progress.

Hey Adam

What I mean is from build completion and initial FBL unit setup its had one single 4 min flight on brand new packs so its not ready for me to put it in the rest of my fleet and say its good to go. The FBL unit has bank switching for setting the gains of both the head and tail. I have these on two rotary knobs on my TX. Due to the FBL unit type, it is not recommended to set up the bailout until the heli is in the ball park with its gains.

The plan now is to complete a full inspection of it to make sure nothing has unscrewed or about to fall off etc. Then some more tuning is required and then the bail out setup. Once then I will give it a few more flights (only hovered in the first one) and then it will enter service.

While the crash costs of any of my helis are not taken well, I am not too worried about crashing them. Its part of the game. But I would say I have had some mental walls to break along the way to my current level. You definitely feel, as u were leading to, how much something has held u back once u manage to get past it!

Once of these is being confident in FBL tuning. Which I don't have a lot of experience in. Coolice has been great in helping me with this in the past, but I wont learn it unless I have a go. As I am new not only to FBL unit tuning, I am new to the FBL manufacturer I have on the goblin, and the 3 bladed head. So its steady as I go, not have an unnecessary crash!

[p4ddy]

Hmm orientations are one thing but transitioning from one thing to another is what I always found/find hard. I said to Matty once how I really enjoyed how he transitions from even the simplest move to the next and how I'd love to be able to have my flying flow from one thing to the next so elegantly, (he'll hate that comment lol, he wants to be a smack head not a drivng miss daisy kind of flyer lol) well he did in 2012.

[Thor]

There's also the "From figure-8's to funnels in 6 months" thread on helifreak. That's hugely popular, with a lot of people reporting great success following that technique to start 3D flight.
From tail-in to all 8s and funnels in 6 months - HeliFreak

This. It will help you quickly reach the point where you are comfortable and competent with the heli in any orientation. From there the sky's the limit ;-)

Personally, I try to keep three steps ahead on the sim, so that I never do anything in real life that I am not proficient at on the sim. I do make the occassional exception, but that sometimes comes at a cost. At the end of the day it's a matter of temperament (and budget) how disciplined you want to be with your training.

[Jetman71]

Thanks for the comments fellas. I might be trying to be too ambitious and transition from figure of 8's, hovering, circuits to inverted flight - man if I could flip it and hover inverted I'd be made. Guess I'm being over ambitious and need to take a few inbetween steps. I did have a TREX 450 a couple of years ago which I got to the point of doing stall turns with. Trouble was the crash damage (lost control in high winds) was too costly so I got rid.

Myxiplx - looks like your suggestions are an idea. Need to get some structure to my training - one step at a time!

[myxiplx]

Myxiplx - looks like your suggestions are an idea. Need to get some structure to my training - one step at a time!

Yup, it's important to get the foundations in place before you rush ahead.

However, don't think that you have to follow these guides religiously. Refer back to them to ensure you're working on all the core skills, but feel free to mix things up in your practice. I was usually working on several skills at the same time to keep things fun, and of course you can always work on loops, stall turns and other big air skills while working on the foundations for 3D.