Yet another what do you think noobie thread.

[Granpappy]

Is starting with a 500 really a good idea if you haven't got the support of a club? It's one thing having a micro buzzing about out of control, but quite a real danger with something that size! One of my considerations when I started was that I was often flying with our 2 year old daughter, so that ruled out anything remotely large. But even if I was flying alone I wouldn't have gone any bigger than a 450. It's a bit different once you can fly confidently, but something you really have to think hard about at the beginning. Even a 450 is fairly dangerous in the wrong hands. If you are flying at a club with support, then I can't argue that bigger is better providing you accept the larger costs involved - not just in crashing, but batteries, chargers etc.

Anyway I think Jay23 has plenty of options to consider at this point. They all have their pros and cons, but I certainly wouldn't do anything differently if I started out again tomorrow. One thing I've noticed (and this is just an observation) is that people who learn to fly on large models rarely seem to get on with flying micros later on, but people who learn with micros are usually happy to fly any size heli when they progress. I'm not saying micro learners develop better flying skills, it's just that they seem more able to switch between small and larger models. I realise some people simply struggle with seeing micros if their eyesight is a bit dodgy, so that limits them to larger helis only. But presuming you have good eyesight it is nice to be able to enjoy flying smaller helis too. Since I bought my OXY 3 I've even stopped looking at larger helis because I'm struggling to see the point in going larger just for the sake of it. It really is a game changer for small helis.

Depends on how much room you have. Bigger helis get flown further out therefore if you do lose control then there is a lot more distance between you and the heli to either recover or deck it. How far out can you fly an Oxy 3 before you lose orientation on it? Obviously bigger helis need more discipline when it comes to safety because they can do more damage so therefore you can't go and fly one where people are going to be wandering about in your flying area. Agreed that it can be a limitation on your flying activities. But beyond that, it's a big sky so why not use it.

[1chris]

If you have to worry about costs when learning to fly, or flying model helicopters, may I suggest that this is not really the hobby for you

[bigpops]

If you have to worry about costs when learning to fly, or flying model helicopters, may I suggest that this is not really the hobby for you

It's only as expensive as you make it these days.

It's perfectly doable to learn on a very cheap micro and a sim. I'm not talking spektrum stuff here, but the best pilot I know started on a WLtoys 977. He can only afford to fly a 450 as he has no job or car at present, and comes to the field on the bus.

Myself, I started on Walkera 4#3. It must have been over 2 years before I'd spent £1000 total on the hobby, and that includes buying 2x transmitters, 3 or 4 Trex 450 clones of varying quality, and a used but mint Trex 500.

[myxiplx]

If you have to worry about costs when learning to fly, or flying model helicopters, may I suggest that this is not really the hobby for you

I started like that, my first purchase was a £25 WLToys V911 as I didn't want to risk any more than that if I didn't like the hobby. After that I got hooked and picked up a Walkera SuperCP with Devo 10 for about £125 which got me flying, but again was the lowest cost 6 channel option I could find.

... of course things went a bit wrong money wise after that as I got properly hooked and bought a bunch of bigger models :-D, but you can get yourself actually flying for very little these days. A sim and a nQX, nCP S or mCPX can take you from beginner to 3D capable in about a year and under £400 all in (including crash costs).

[Peteski]

If you have to worry about costs when learning to fly, or flying model helicopters, may I suggest that this is not really the hobby for you

Well he's already got a DX6 + sim and has the funds to buy a decent 450, so no problem with costs as far as I can see. Not everyone has to fly a Goblin with all the latest and greatest gear in tow. It's only not worth it when the worry of costs outweighs the pleasure of flying.

[Peteski]

Depends on how much room you have. Bigger helis get flown further out therefore if you do lose control then there is a lot more distance between you and the heli to either recover or deck it. How far out can you fly an Oxy 3 before you lose orientation on it? Obviously bigger helis need more discipline when it comes to safety because they can do more damage so therefore you can't go and fly one where people are going to be wandering about in your flying area. Agreed that it can be a limitation on your flying activities. But beyond that, it's a big sky so why not use it.

Good point, providing the space doesn't have other people in it and you actually do keep it well away from you.

The Oxy 3 is pretty good for visibility actually. The canopy is exactly the same size as my Blade 450 and much brighter coloured. I like to keep to a max range of about 100 m when flying and it's very easy to see at that distance. But I suppose most of the time it's within 50 m of me. I could fly it quite a bit further out, but don't see the point. I'm sure a 500 would be even more visible, but doubt it would make much practical difference for me. One issue I would have with a larger heli safety is landing. The field I fly in is very large, but the landing spot is very tight and I really need to be close up to spot the landing accurately. Even with a bigger model, I'd have to get up close and personal with it!

[Jay23]

Thanks guys again for all your opinions, granpapy do all modern fbl have the self level feature, specifically the gpro? I mistakenly thought this feature was only available on "trainer" type heli's. I can well afford a 450 and everything that goes with it (including crash costs) but I have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to outlay, the trex seems very reasonably priced.
At the moment I'm leaning more and more to the 230, I'm not sure my flying will progress as fast as I want with a 450 as I will be always very concerned about damaging it.
One more thing....I understand the 230 is fairly new to market and parts are all listed as out of stock, should this affect my decision?

[Grumpy]

One issue I would have with a larger heli safety is landing. The field I fly in is very large, but the landing spot is very tight and I really need to be close up to spot the landing accurately.

I don't see this as an insurmountable problem. Even if the landing area is quite small you don't have to stand right next to it, it's certainly possible to land a heli accurately without being right on top of it.

Also bear in mind that for landing you can approach the spot slowly in a controlled way, so can safely get 'reasonably' close to yourself without undue risk.

[Grumpy]

Thanks guys again for all your opinions, granpapy do all modern fbl have the self level feature, specifically the gpro?

That No and No (No they dont all have it and No the Gpro doesn't have it)


There are actually very few FBL controllers that have 'self level' in normal flight... By this I mean the ability to have self leveling turned on all the time so that the heli tends always to return to level flights when you centre the sticks.

The ones that do that I know of are:

• Bavarian Demon 3SX
• Spirit or Spirit Pro
• Microbeast Plus Pro
• Spektrum AR7210 (with SAFE firmware upgrade)
• MSH Brain

There are other controllers that self level ONLY when you hit the panic/rescue switch but don't have self leveling in normal flight those are:

• Mikado Neo (with Pro Rescue firmware upgrade)
• EZNOV Neuron

*** I dont own all of these so if I'm wrong on any let me know!

[Peteski]

I don't see this as an insurmountable problem. Even if the landing area is quite small you don't have to stand right next to it, it's certainly possible to land a heli accurately without being right on top of it.

Also bear in mind that for landing you can approach the spot slowly in a controlled way, so can safely get 'reasonably' close to yourself without undue risk.

I'm talking about landing in a space the size of a small doormat on a narrow path, with no margin for error. It's really hard to judge unless I'm within a few feet of it. But it's a bit irrelevant to this thread really, it's more a specific problem for where I fly. The positive is that my landings are super accurate!

[Peteski]

That No and No (No they dont all have it and No the Gpro doesn't have it)


There are actually very few FBL controllers that have 'self level' in normal flight... By this I mean the ability to have self leveling turned on all the time so that the heli tends always to return to level flights when you centre the sticks.

The ones that do that I know of are:

• Bavarian Demon 3SX
• Spirit or Spirit Pro
• Microbeast Plus Pro
• Spektrum AR7210 (with SAFE firmware upgrade)
• MSH Brain

There are other controllers that self level ONLY when you hit the panic/rescue switch but don't have self leveling in normal flight those are:

• Mikado Neo (with Pro Rescue firmware upgrade)
• EZNOV Neuron

*** I dont own all of these so if I'm wrong on any let me know!

I think that's a great summary of what's out there.

I use Microbeast Plus Pro and that is very flexible for setting up self-level flight. I only use it for panic rescue (i.e. very aggressive self-levelling with fast skyward collective input!) but it has a specific self-levelling trainer mode which you can fly with all the time. This also limits the max angle at which the heli can lean in roll and pitch. There is also a 3D trainer mode which self-levels both upright and inverted (it always levels to the nearest plane when you let go of the cyclic). It's very well thought out and easy to adjust. I would imagine that the Spektrum AR7210 works exactly the same as it's also BeastX.

These latest FBL controllers are very good for confidence building, but you also have to learn how to use them properly. I've had one crash already by hitting the wrong switch, but I've really drilled it into my brain now. I activate rescue at least once every flight now, just to check it's working correctly and to train my finger. It's actually quite cool watching how quick it responds.

[myxiplx]

Yeah, there aren't that many FBL systems that have a self level or 'rescue' feature, and the ones that do tend to be more expensive. It's becoming a more popular option though.

Blade are leading the way by adding that in to their nCP S and 230 S models, but then this is their market, the smaller models are ideal for learning on and having rescue features makes a lot of sense.

I'm not aware of any larger machines that would have these features as standard, you would have to buy them as a kit and add your choice of FBL system to it. A 360mm or larger model with self level and rescue does make a good training platform, it's just more work to put together and more up front costs.

[Granpappy]

I use the Bavarian Demon 3SX on my 500L and I am putting another one on my Titan X50E once it's built.

They are probably the more expensive of the self levelling and rescue FBL controllers but I see it as insurance against crashes. I've set up the BD self level on a 3 way switch with 50%, 25% and 0% self level. Rescue is on a toggle non latching switch. The set up covers pretty much everything that I want to do on a heli and also covers all situation recovery scenarios. If I get out of shape whilst flying then I switch to self level, and if I really get out of shape then I hit rescue. On 50% self level you can fly pretty much hands off depending on how windy it is. The BD is expensive but I like the feel of flying with it fitted. The tail rotor is particularly snappy and I find it very controllable for slow pirouettes. Initially it was a bugger to set up but that was just me being a plank. Now I know how do do it, I have no problem with getting another one.

The only thing I would stress on using one of these is that the mechanical set up (before any programming) has to be spot on.

[Jay23]

As regards the self leveling fbl can they be used with a 6 channel transmitter?, i fear i may have made the wrong choice with the DX6

[tomatwalden]

As regards the self leveling fbl can they be used with a 6 channel transmitter?, i fear i may have made the wrong choice with the DX6

Almost certainly. Bear in mind, even "normal" FBLs without bailout only use 5 channels - ele, ail, throttle, pitch, gain. I doubt you've made a wrong choice with the DX6.