So, someone said you're meant to fly outdoors?!

[ReeferSam]

Afternoon folks,

a little background: I've been flying small 4 channel heli's and quads for a few years on and off. Nearly all of this has been smaller indoor models, last of which being a little f-series heli (R.I.P). With flying indoors, I feel I've become fairly competent with regard to flying a 4 channel and not landing it in my reef tank or any other available hazards!

My fiancée recently purchased a slightly larger quad that I'm able to take out in a fair wind and finally start some outdoor flights! Have to say, I've been truly missing out. Whilst quads offer something, I don't feel they have the soul that straight up heli's offer. I had tried to take my last heli out but even in the slightest of wind.. no chance.

That leads me to my question - I'm looking for a larger (perhaps 6 channel) electric heli that I can have some fun with on the farm. I understand the difference in difficulty and the resulting learning curve but I have patience and the confidence to learn safely. After googling around, I'm struggling to figure out what would be right for me. 'Sizes' are a new concept for me but it seems a 450, 6 channel would be about right. I'm reluctant to purchase anything that has a low 'skill cap' as I'll just end up wanting an upgrade prematurely. Ideally this heli needs to be both forgiving, yet encouraging. I'd like to have the luxury of starting with the modest skill set I currently have and hopefully take it to the next level.

So! With those aspects in mind.. here's the biggest one! Can this be done for a budget of £250... RTF? Said heli would have to be purchasable from a reputable online vendor (clueless Re that too!) and have accessible spares supply.

Life story complete, thanks for reading guys, I really appreciate any guidance you're able to offer me through your greater experience.

Cheers,

Sam.

P.S. Side thought - What legal implications does outdoor flight entail? I have a fair amount of private land to enjoy but no doubt I'll want to go elsewhere.

[Boggy]

Hi Sam ,welcome to the forum.

[tomatwalden]

...

So! With those aspects in mind.. here's the biggest one! Can this be done for a budget of £250... RTF? Said heli would have to be purchasable from a reputable online vendor (clueless Re that too!) and have accessible spares supply.
...

Blade 230S. Beginner 6-channel helicopter with "SAFE" modes and panic recovery system. RTF at £218 including you need to get you started.

Midlands helicopters have the RTF and BNF version in stock .
BLH1500UK | Blade 230s RTF

Available from lots of reputable stores in the UK, with plentiful parts supply.
RC-hero Blade
Fast Lad Fast Lad Performance
Midland helicopters :Traditional Style - Blade - Electric Helicopters - Heli/Multirotor Kits | Midland Helicopters Ltd

[waveydavey]

Hey Sam welcome.

[Grumpy]

So! With those aspects in mind.. here's the biggest one! Can this be done for a budget of £250... RTF? Said heli would have to be purchasable from a reputable online vendor (clueless Re that too!) and have accessible spares supply.

Sam,

Doing a 450 for £250 is a challenge but is possible. Your best option might be to find a second hand setup, that way you could get 'genuine' brand name gear that's built and setup for you. But for that budget you wouldn't get the latest and greatest 450 heli, even second hand.

The other option is to buy a 'clone' heli. Clones are basically cheaper copies of brand name helis, usually they are copies of 'Align trex' brand helis. One such option is the Hobbyking Assault 450. This would give you a complete ready to fly package within your budget (though assume you will get hit with import duty when bringing into UK): Assault 450 DFC Flybarless 3D Helicopter w/OrangeRX T-SIX 2.4GHz Transmitter (Mode 2) (RTF)

I'll not kid you that this is a top quality heli because it isnt. Having said that they aren't as bad as you might think. With a little TLC and accepting that you might have to do a few repairs and upgrades over time they can be a decent flying heli. Bottom line is it's the only option if you want a new 450 heli for a £250 budget.

Because they are copies of Align Trex helis you can use genuine Align trex spares which are readily available and quite cheap. People have lots of opinions about Hobbyking but they are a reputable enough vendor, I've got 70 orders with them!... just don't expect much in the way of after-sales support (at the price you have to have realistic expectations)

[woodsta888]

nah....even 800's are for indoors!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlQGNrMblVo

[Euclid]

I totally understand what you mean about quads not having 'soul' Sam. I came here from quads cos I was just system controlling them and not piloting them. That said I've recently been introduced to a 250 FPV racer, maybe, just maybe, quads have a purpose after all (other than ticking off the CAA). Welcome to the forum.

[Planehazza]

Welcome mate. To build a 450 for £250 you'd be restricted to entirely second hand stuff. Things go on here for very good prices and pretty everyone is really cool and trustworthy.

Don't forget you're going to need a Transmitter, charging equipment and batteries on top of the model itself.

[myxiplx]

Blade 230S. Beginner 6-channel helicopter with "SAFE" modes and panic recovery system. RTF at £218 including you need to get you started.

Midlands helicopters have the RTF and BNF version in stock .
BLH1500UK | Blade 230s RTF

Available from lots of reputable stores in the UK, with plentiful parts supply.
RC-hero Blade
Fast Lad Fast Lad Performance
Midland helicopters :Traditional Style - Blade - Electric Helicopters - Heli/Multirotor Kits | Midland Helicopters Ltd

This! Forget about a 450, you won't get that up and running for anywhere near £250, and each crash can cost you anywhere between £20 and £50 too. A 450 is a great size to aim for once you've got the basics down, but it's an expensive way to learn.

There are a number of good beginner models now, and Blade rule the roost when it comes to small or starter models. The 230S is their brand new one, small enough to keep the costs down as you're learning and crashing, but big enough to fly well. It's got trainer modes, but is capable of taking you all the way to 3D flight if you want.

If you've any doubts as to how capable it is, just take a few minutes to watch their launch video:

What I would say is that it's also worth looking for a simulator too. A simulator plus a small helicopter is pretty much the quickest and most cost effective way to get started in the hobby, and while it seems like a lot extra to spend, it'll pay for itself in crashes saved.

[Grumpy]

This! Forget about a 450, you won't get that up and running for anywhere near £250, and each crash can cost you anywhere between £20 and £50 too. A 450 is a great size to aim for once you've got the basics down, but it's an expensive way to learn.

The link I posted says different... You can buy a complete RTF 450 flybarless heli for under £250, that's including everything, transmitter, battery, charger the lot.. that's a fact. Sure it might not be the best 450 heli out there but it's not the worst by a long shot.

here's the link again in case you missed it: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...de_2_RTF_.html

As for learning on a 450... 'Back in the day' everyone learned on far bigger helis than a 450 because that's all there was to learn on. Personally I learned on a 450 having (by the sound of it) less previous heli experience than Sam. I did fine, i never really had any bad crashes. I'm not a fast learner, i just took it steady, baby steps all the way. Personally i never could get along with the smaller helis i tried later, too twitchy and frenetic for my reactions. Repairs on the micro i tried ran to a lot more than my first 450 ever did.

Bottom line is there are many ways to get into this hobby and there isn't a single 'best way'. Smaller helis will always be a bit of a handful outdoors in any wind though.

[Dean airwolf]

Welcome Sam.
HH have a problem with the 230s in beginner mode the swash will not set up level in start up.They say go into trim flight mode and fly it level for 30 seconds and the swash will level out itself.
4 attempts later no change with and its going back to be sorted out.
I would like to say that HH should not be selling these has BNF which they are not(for a beginner).
A good friend of mine who is expenance flyer try to sortbout the swash problem.A video of HH pilots shows you how to do the set up but hes EXPERIENCED pilot so it would not be a problem.
If I tried to do the set up it would have come down and smashed to bits.Part from the swash problem it is a good heli to learn on and me and my friend are very inpressed with this heli.
I have not that HH will do the right and sort it out for me they have a very good customer service centre.

[Mike Sanders]

Welcome to the forum.
I can't really advise about the technical stuff but I would urge you to join the BMFA before you fly outdoors. Have the protection of third party insurance.

[tomatwalden]

....
As for learning on a 450... 'Back in the day' everyone learned on far bigger helis than a 450 because that's all there was to learn on. Personally I learned on a 450 having (by the sound of it) less previous heli experience than Sam. I did fine, i never really had any bad crashes. I'm not a fast learner, i just took it steady, baby steps all the way. Personally i never could get along with the smaller helis i tried later, too twitchy and frenetic for my reactions. Repairs on the micro i tried ran to a lot more than my first 450 ever did.

Bottom line is there are many ways to get into this hobby and there isn't a single 'best way'. Smaller helis will always be a bit of a handful outdoors in any wind though.

LOL, "Back in the day ..." people thought Guinness was a health food too!

FWIW, I learnt using a combination of a Blade 450-3D (flybarred) and an mCPX (v2). For me it was the perfect combo. I took it easy with the 450 and solidified skills that I practised on the mCPX. Everyone's different, and what works for one person isn't necessarily right for all. But I do think that the modern micros, with flybarless controllers and "panic modes" are a far cry from the micros of even 3 years ago.

So whilst the old 450-route of learning will work (well!) for some, I suspect _most_ will progress faster/cheaper with the new generation of micros, which actually handle outdoors and wind quite well due to the flybarless units.

[French Paul]

Welcome to the forum
I started last June last year with a hubsan x4 quad in my garden, then a blade nano cpx which took a beating and kept on going. The blade mcpx was the next and more power helped but the 130x really got me learning fast and inspired me to get a Phoenix rc simulator, by the end of July 7 weeks later I got myself a trex 600n and I've tried lots of different kits since to find what I enjoy learning 3d with today.

Truth is you get what you pay for with rc hobbies, first get a decent trustworthy transmitter such as the spektrum dx6 or even an older dx6i (dsmX version) around ££60-70 new, a decent simulator such as Phoenix rc,second hand on eBay can be had for £30-£40, any version is good as they are updatable for free for life.
Then with whatever change you have left pick up a blade nano cp s which is being released sometime now with beginner intermediate and 3d flight modes,or a blade mcpx bl. Both have simple settings in the manual for spektrum transmitters, master either of these and anything else is a doddle! Plus they won't cost a lot to repair and parts are available in nearly every flying model shop in the country, which says a lot!

my learning curve has been vertical in a very short period of time because I've put a lot of time and money in and learnt a lot of info from the guys here and at local flying clubs.
i didn't ask for much advice when I started, I mostly read reviews to find what suited me, watched a lot of videos on YouTube and just over a year on I'm enjoying it all just the same :-)

trick is invest your time into learning as much as you can about how they work, watch lessons on YouTube which you can practise on the simulator and then try with your new heli in an open space, your £250 will go a long way.
Enjoy

Paul

[robocog]

TL;DR
Get an mcpx and sim and stick at them before going any bigger, unless you are time and financially well off and have a love of benchtime and waiting for parts




The very very long version from a set of newbies eyes on the journey / learning curve so far

I started with a toy quad (Syma X5C) and was bobbins at flying it..understandable for an older bloke that has never flown anything before and generally rubbish at computer games
I eventually got banned by the Mrs from flying it indoors when I had a mishap and broke one of her precious things that she balances precariously on ledges in the kitchen
I tried flying outdoors, but had a fly away due to wind, luckily I got it back and it put me off outdoors - unless it was a completely still day (not that often on the south coast in England)

I did get a simulator (Phoenix) and tried to fly the quads on there, which was unsatisfying and not at all realistic IMHO
I had a dabble with the planes on the sim, and was just as ropey at keeping them airbourne and it just didn't grab me as being that interesting

Not sure where I read it (possibly a quad forum) that flying helis on a sim was as good a practice as it gets

I forced myself to have a go now and again, I wasn't very good at it at first and found it too frustrating/not immersive enough and its the computer game thing I seem to get bored of after a few mins

Then along came the 4ch fixed pitch indoor mini heli (V911) got good enough to fly that indoors without hitting anything, got good enough to fly circuits backwards and do funnels in a remarkably small space
It's completely useless in even the lightest of breezes, not at all outdoor friendly

I assume this is about where you are or slightly beyond this...this is where my wish to be 'better at flying the quad' goes awry and I became a heli addict/junky

I thought I was ready for a collective pitch...it should fair better outdoors...how hard could it be compared to a V911

So I got an mcpx...OMG, different ball game altogether for me, uncontrollable, too responsive, too fast and unstable, required the pace of a footy pitch to just fly a circuit for the first few hours of attempting to keep it airborne
many many many crashes if the tail wasn't facing directly at me, seemingly impossible to keep it from diving in a random direction if not constantly corrected

I thought it was the copter to blame and nearly gave it up as a bad one, Luckily I found someone locally with an mcpx and he flew it perfectly so I knew it was ME that needed to be tweaked

I'd suggest to anyone who wants to have a go at CP flying on the cheap does the sim thing and an mcpx and just keep at it
(best sim advice I got -select a 450 or bigger heli set the tail to slowly pirouette and try and keep it hovering in the circle without drifting off into oblivion or crashing - attempt this for 15 mins a day)

I kept going till whatever the massive barrier was that stopped it being "impossible to control and frustrating" to it being "ooh this is fun"
I cant tell you what "clicked" in my brain but I could give you the date and time it happened if it it meant anything to anyone but me
I had got VERY close to calling it a day with the MCPX and sim, and boy am I glad I persisted just that little bit longer

This process took many hours and didn't cost me a great deal in the way of parts to keep the poor abused mcpx flying
Just lots of time and telling myself it WAS possible for a doddery old fool to master

The mcpx I can now fly circuits indoors in the same small space as the V911 could
I can't yet do backwards or any tricks or even do it 'scale precision' neatly...but I can at least now keep it flying and under control most of the time

I went bigger and got a 250 heli - possibly a tad prematurely - in the hopes I'd be able to fly in slightly stronger winds outdoors

The parts bill for the first 'crash' I had with my 250 heli whilst still setting it up pretty much cost more than the electricity I consumed crashing around on the sim AND the 2nd hand mcpx in total

I would think 450's are a little cheaper to keep in parts due to their popularity compared to the seemingly out of flavor 250 class now
(I'm once again fashionably late to the party!)

I still have the mcpx and a bunch of other micro CP flybarless helis and fixed pitch helis that can handle a little gentle breeze
These micro helis are pretty much indestructible once you get your head into hitting TH as soon as its going wrong
Everyone should have at least one
Can be made as mild or as wild as required via a programmable TX

I still do the sim thing - and occasionally drop down to 250 sized heli for the pirouette on the circle practice...am getting slowly better each time
I will usually throw in a few mins of just messing about and looping flipping and crashing when I get bored

The sim seems a lot 'flightier' than my real 250 heli (possibly my FC and TX settings) which I suppose will make the real 250 feel mega stable once I have it nailed on the computer

The 250 heli crashed out again today - was a mechanical failure rather than pilot error this time

3 cells in on a nice calm day and starting to relax and get into it and allow it to move a little bit faster.. the elevator servo died (if it wasn't the cause - it's certainly very dead now!) with the copter only a foot off the deck, went in nose first, parts list again cost more than the 2nd hand mcpx (new elevator servo, flybarless head,CF boom, belt and feathering shaft required so far...could have been a lot worse I suppose but if this were my only outdoor heli I would be at my wits end with buying and fixing rather than flying and learning)

In the same sort of crash the mcpx would have likely only required placing back onto its skids and back in the air after picking the grass out the moving parts

It's the extra mass and headspeed and complexity that seems to make crashes more spectacular and costly with the bigger helis

Determined I will get the airtime to bench time ratio a bit more balanced on the 250 as well as £ per flight

The quads now feel completely soul less and boring and robotic in comparison, where a few months ago I would have described them as mega fast, wild and responsive - I don't see how I managed to get the toy quad moving fast enough to get out of control to cause any damage now

Perspective is a funny old thing...

The MCPX no longer feels like a wild uncontrollable beast, but I know it still holds a LOT of learning potential and I'm not going to outgrow it for many many years
It has been an invaluable learning tool so far

Intentionally inverted and still in control enough to land back onto the skids is my goal for this year
Can do it on the sim most of the time but finding in real life is not as easy

Crashing an mcpx is a LOT less costly than a 250 regardless of how fast you can hit throttle hold
I would think a 450 is similar...more likely to injure...but more stable in the first place so less chance of crashing

Good luck with whatever path you choose

Sorry about the L O N G post

Regards
Rob