First Helicopter?

[DesertForce]

Hi Guys,

I am sure the question has been asked before but I only seem to find posts with rtf helicopters (I do not, and will not, have a Spektrum radio, so most of these are out anyway).

I am intending to get going with a 450 heli, I am quite set on an Align Trex. One of the guys of my local club has given me the link to this page and I thought I shall ask for your opinion? Is that heli a good starting point? Any other suggestions? Flybarred or Flybarless, and why?


NB, yes, I have a "Heli able" remote (Graupner MZ24) and i also have a spare RX.

Thanks in advance!

[Euclid]

Interesting question DF, unfortunately not one I'm qualified to answer but I shall be watching this thread to see what the experts' opinions are. When I first came to helicopters the majority of my early times were spent walking back and forwards picking the heli up. With a 450 I'd have been picking bits up! I'm guessing you're an aircraft flyer, belong to a club and have somebody there to buddy you. If you go the 450 route I'd be interested to hear if it works, good luck.

[mark_w]

Its the question nobody can answer but you...
Micro will crash well and any crash cost will be small, but its twitchy so you will crash more
A large heli (600 sized) will cost more in a crash but being much more stable so you will hopefully crash less
A 450 will sit in the middle

I learnt on a Raptor 30 (before micros were any good!) and loved the fact I could practice all day (just add fuel), but was a member of a club and would not advise anything bigger than a micro in the local park.

Do you have previous flying experience?

[myxiplx]

I would recommend a BNF micro, simply because when you're learning you will most likely crash a lot. On a micro if you crash you just pick it up and try again.

On a larger model, even a relatively small heli like a 450, a crash will mean broken parts and you have the cost and lost time of rebuilding it. A crash can easily be £50 and two weeks without flying. 450's are great, but when you first start out you'll progress much faster and at a lower cost with a micro, and a 450 is the perfect size for you to pick up once you have the basics down.

The new Blade 230S looks like a really, really good first heli. It's new, but the technology in it looks like it'll take you from total beginner to competent pilot.

If it's of interest, I put together a chart a while back showing some of the strenghts and weaknesses of the most popular choices when it comes to starting the hobby:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=358688583

[DesertForce]

Thanks for the input, both. Aye, i am member of a club and will have help with everything. I have some experience with indoor helicopters, some experience with quads and some experiences with planes (even though I am more Launchpad McQuack atm with the planes).

I have read the start up guide"s" but as stated, these are rather useless for me. I am not acquiring an, in my opinion, inferior remote just to fly micro or BNF helicopters (this is not "Spektrum bashing" but roots from experience with the brand which caused a number of issues and run-aways on some of my surface models). I understand the cost of a crash is potentially quite high but I also understand that an Align Trex 450 can be numbed down very considerably.

[hedge]

Welcome, with micros out I recommend you get a sim. Nice radio btw, the trex range are great, numbed down is a matter of expert opinion rather that out of the box beginner friendly. If you can get buddied up then cool otherwise a few days on the sim to get yourself oriented then give it a go. Go flybarless 100s of reasons why but the main being you'll get plenty of support rather than searching archives to find answers to your questions.

[tomatwalden]

Sounds to me like you've made your decision already - and you're looking for validation of that decision!

Is a 450 a good size to start with? Depends on you. There's no right answer for everyone. Learning on a 450 can be done if you take it easy and have a lot of patience. It's easier these days with simulators of course. Personally I took the first steps on a micro and progressed to a 450 and that worked for me. In doing so, I saved a lot of time, money and stress by not incurring costs and disappointment with a broken 450 after only a day or two.

As for the Align 450 - are you thinking build-your-own-kit or a pre-built bind-to-fly? I personally don't rate Align's pre-built stuff - I think they are poorly put together. Their kits are OK albeit they do tend to use really weak screws that strip easily. But parts are cheap and readily available - Align are definitely the "Ford" of the heli world.

[DesertForce]

I have not necessarily yet made my decision, no. but I was thinking to go that route for a while now. I can get a second hand 450, which has a few upgrades in the right places, for a good price. I have gotten Phoenix already and had a few test flights with all sorts of models. Issue is, i am yet to discover how to set throttle and pitch up the correct way etc, things I did not yet have the chance to speak to someone about. I appreciate it would be easier to progress from a micro, but unless someone has a free Spektrum flying about somewhere (as i refuse to pay money for it), Blade BNF stuff is not going to happen.

I am just seriously interested in alternatives to the BNF stuff. Are there any smaller, not too expensive helis which do not rely on Spektrum at all?

[tomatwalden]

..

I am just seriously interested in alternatives to the BNF stuff. Are there any smaller, not too expensive helis which do not rely on Spektrum at all?

If we exclude the ridiculously cheap brands then in short, no. Horizon Hobby are pretty much the only major player in the smaller RTF/BNF market. Align do make the Trex 150, Trex 250 and Trex 450 in pre-built configurations (in fact, only pre-built for the 150), but like I say, I personally don't think Align do pre-built very well.

And frankly, I think the Trex 150 is simply not as good as the Blade mCPX/BL or Blade 180CFX no matter what you think about Blade/Spektrum.

An alternative (kit) heli in the 300 size is the Oxy-3 .. but it is build it yourself and frankly, it's not really a beginner heli despite its size.

If you're dead set against Blade - I would say a 450 is your best option. You can put your RX on it and bind to your radio.

And, in answer to your other question - go flybarless, they're so much easier than flybars - is the second hand one you mention flybarless or flybarred ?

[DesertForce]

It is a flybarless. A Trex 450 Pro 3G I believe.

[tomatwalden]

The Align 3G was a first generation flybarless controller. Quickly replaced by the 3GX, which has itself now been superseded by the Align GPro. Possibly worth checking the classifieds to see if anything else better(*) is available - or at least to verify the price is right ..

(*) That's not to say there's anything particularly wrong with the 3G - but newer stuff may be available for not much more £££

[myxiplx]

Plenty of good advice here. Shame micros are out as they're a good learning tool, but you do at least have the sim which is enough to learn the basics. Just take it steady for the first few flights with the 450, but with the amount of RC experience you have it's definitely a viable way to start.

I would personally advise against the Align 3G or 3GX, I fought a 3GX for a looong time on my Trex 250 and it caused at least one crash. I do fly 3GX on my 600N's, but really don't trust it on smaller models.

If you are still interested in micros, have you considered adding a DSMX module to your Graupner? Or looking for a cheap 2nd hand Spektrum radio? While I understand you don't like them, a cheap radio and micro can potentially save you money as you're learning, and many micros really can be flown anywhere.

[pooleman]

I started with a 450 pro and real flight as a sim. The spool up is intimidating at first but you get use to it.... i learnt to hover tail in on the sim then strapped on training gear and tried the real thing. I'd say it is quite a steep learning curve but with patience and a good few batteries it is doable. I learnt in a sports hall with small hops then low hovering, then moving around. It took great patience, concentration and effort at first. Once I felt confident with basic control, i ditched the training gear and moved on to higher hovering and more gentle moving about. The key is patience and for me sim practice, it's easier and cheaper to learn the basics on a sim mixed with your actual stick time. Stick time is harder to get but very valuable... i joined a club once I could hover and moved outside, the club has been great, experience, encouragement and help all on hand! I quickly flogged the 450 and got a larger heli but that was my choice, much easier to fly for me outside but I'm totally bitten by the heli bug

It's seriously addictive... hope you enjoy it!

[pooleman]

Oh yeah, I went for a flybar on first 450 due to price and advice, but would agree with everyone here flybarless is THE way to go... i find it much better all round

[DesertForce]

The Align 3G was a first generation flybarless controller. Quickly replaced by the 3GX, which has itself now been superseded by the Align GPro. Possibly worth checking the classifieds to see if anything else better(*) is available - or at least to verify the price is right ..

(*) That's not to say there's anything particularly wrong with the 3G - but newer stuff may be available for not much more £££

Well, as for the price, he offered it to me for 150 quid, which I find acceptable. It got align servos all round and a fair few amount of upgrades. It looks mint as well. Even though it started life as a clone 90% had be replaced even before the maiden. All what is left is the frame, a few spacers and a small plastic cover. Might be worth mentioning that it comes with 2 canapes. As for the model, well, it is neither one or the other. It is a mix out of all of them

I have fiddled about with the sim and I get along OK me thinks. I manage inverted hovers, loops etc. Just when it comes to the landing.... Lets just say there is a 50/50 rate atm as I find it hard to precisely steer the helicopter where I want it to be. That is, however, with just the very standard remote setup. i have not yet adjusted anything.