Autorotation with constant collective?

[Thor]

I was playing around with autorotations on the Phoenix sim today (flying the new Goblin 630 model). My goal was to work out the best attitude to maintain during the decent to maximize head speed after the flare, so I was experimenting with different attitudes while keeping a constant -3 degrees of collective just to keep everything the same except the angle of the model. I was trying to vary the angle between somewhat nose-down and slightly nose-up to see what effect this had on the head speed. Unfortunately, I was unable to see any significant difference in HS between my various approaches - mainly just a difference in how far the model travels. But what I found - to my surprise -was that I was able to land the model without damage by timing the flare just right but without ever touching the collective stick. In other words, I did several complete, successful autos at constant -3 degrees collective.

Now my question for the autorotation experts: is this possible in real life, or is the sim that bad when it comes to autorotations?

Thanks!

[tomatwalden]

Phoenix is terrible for autos. Long before I could do a real auto, I could auto pretty much anything in Phoenix - it really does make it too easy.

RealFlight is much better in this respect, as is neXt - but I think RF is the best sim I've used for autos.

Once I could do autos in RF well, and once I'd watched a few vids (notably Bobby Watt's Smacktalk vid), I progressed to real life.

[KevDavies]

Autos in Phoenix are as about as far removed from reality as possible. Goblins auto like a brick in real life. VERY hard to do them properly. Yet in Phoenix they float down.

[tomatwalden]

.. Goblins auto like a brick in real life. VERY hard to do them properly. ...

Depends on setup a bit. I use Align 520mm blades on my G500 and it autos very well indeed... almost floats down!

[Thor]

Thanks guys! That's what I was afraid of. I always knew that autos in Phoenix were fairly unrealistic, but the experience without applying any collective made me really wonder.

I have been thinking about giving the neXt sim or heli-x a try, so perhaps now is the time ;-)

[Jez N]

Autorotations depend a lot on wind direction and whether your model is moving forward or just descending. These factors I find influence how much angle the model has in relation to the ground during descent.

You get a feel both from the model and the noise of the blades for whether you are maintaining or gaining head speed. When you have it right (both angle and negative pitch), the blade noise changes to a flutter and the model slows as the blades are resisting descent to gain head speed!

Heading into wind and also FFF will both benefit from more nose up, which presents more of the blade disc to the direction of air flow.

I used the sim to practice, but as others said, it is not really like real life.

[tomatwalden]

..

I have been thinking about giving the neXt sim or heli-x a try, so perhaps now is the time ;-)

I really like neXt. Mostly because it runs natively on my mac .... I tried heli-x but it seemed less polished/complete to me. You can download and try neXt for free but it runs for only 2 mins.

But then, you can stop and restart it, and it runs again for 2 mins ... ad infinitum. I did this for a week before I committed to buying it! (£50)

[scallybert]

What are autos like on AccuRC ?

[Delarado]

What are autos like on AccuRC ?

I think most people are still setting up their heli's before they go fly them arent they?

[scallybert]

I think most people are still setting up their heli's before they go fly them arent they?

I resemble that remark..! [I do reckon it will be my favourite simulator in the future, though.]

Nonetheless, I'd be interested to know how well it autos.

[KevDavies]

Depends on setup a bit. I use Align 520mm blades on my G500 and it autos very well indeed... almost floats down!

my 3 blade 700 is a bit better, but the rest are awful. As u say the disc loading is a big part of it, and a 630 is just a 700 on 630mm blades so take a punt how hard that one is LOL

[KevDavies]

I resemble that remark..! [I do reckon it will be my favourite simulator in the future, though.]

Nonetheless, I'd be interested to know how well it autos.

[flamesuit=on] I think the autos are fairly realistic tbh, there are still some blade profile bugs to work out in the aero engine. And as to setting up the models. The beta testers have been putting a lot of effort into feedback for the base settings for each model. And out of the box they fly pretty damn well.

I can get a fresh model out of hanger, and just slow the piro rate down on pro 3d settings and its bloody close to how id have a real heli. Yeah the myriad of options is confusing for people that are stuck on Phoenix and RF and the way they do it. But just think of AccuRC as a real helicopter in a virtual environment, and you wont go wrong.

After all how often do you change the physical properties of the air at your flying site because the knife edge performance isnt right?? You dont!! Adjust AccuRC like a real heli, and you'll be fine

[myxiplx]

So true, with the v1.5 update AccuRC is flying really, really well, even on my laptop. And the models in 1.5 have all been re-tuned and most of them are a decent 3D spec right out of the box, with presets available to change them to Beginner, Sport, Pro or Expert settings.

I can't comment on how well it autos as I haven't done that in real life yet, but I do love the fact that I tune AccuRC by adjusting standard FBL settings. I'm only a couple of years into the hobby and I've learnt tons about how the FBL settings interact because of that. I've got my virtual 600N setup now so that it's got enough expo for smooth flight and piro practice, but it also reactive enough on the cyclic and quick enough on collective for some really nice tight tic-tocks. Until recently I had no idea just how much easier the FBL setup could make those moves!

And it's so useful being able to see tail wag if the gain is too low, or have the tail blow out if your headspeed is too low and you've left the smaller tailblades on there. In the last 6 months on AccuRC I've learnt as much about setup and tuning as I have about flying. It's fun to push a model hard at low headspeed and experience retreating blade stall, with the model kicking violently aside. It's a big confidence builder to know you can hit that and still catch the model without a crash :-)