how to tictoc

[chrisleematt21]

Looking for some advice on how to perform a nice tictocs

has any one got a particular method?

Which foundation moves should i focus on?

Can it be broken down into part moves and then put together?

Appreciate any advice

[Thor]

I'll be interested to read the answers from people who can do tictocs, too. I am only just getting started with inverted flight, but have also been working for fun on rainbows on the sim. The other day I did my first imprecise rainbows IRL - good fun and a little scary ;-)

To me it seems like rainbows are a good precursor to tictocs. At least that's my plan so far...

[RCSimon]

Waveydavey must have some words of wisdom. I almost flew a backwards circuit today after his words of wisdom last week. And I was flying a plane !!!!

[CromedCm]

Hey, Personally i find aileron tic tocs to be the easiest to do, find out what way is your most comfortable. I see you have a few sim also that's always the best place to start when trying new maneuvers, i would start off by trying to do big and slow tic tocs i always find do maneuver slower better for learning as it give you more time to feel how the heli is moving and reacting to your imputes. Once you can do them slow you should have no problem speeding them up, also one thing i always see people doing when trying tic tocs for the first time is using a to much collective. You don't want to do that as i find it makes the heli maintain in the one spot, and make sure you are moving the stick nice and smooth.

Hope this helps is some way. If you are still struggling i also have neXt simulator and would not mind helping you out online on it

[bladeboy400]

start on the sim, if you practice at the field make sure the heli is a good distance away as it entails pulling towards you and could get in an orientation that you not used too.
the basic tic toc is positive pitch and down elevator, pulling the heli nearly inverted, thats the tic, the toc is the opposite negative pitch and push the elevator up, the timing for this will not be instant, start slow controlling the stick movement so that disc gets to around 45 degrees either way, so slowly pitch up pull towards you till 45 degrees then negative pitch and push up elevator to push away, do big arcs with this to start, as the timing improves you can then shorten the arcs, put about 30 expo on the tail and you wont keep moving it whilst you practice, I learned these mostly on the sim and then got brave at the field. check the tutorials online also these are a great visual help. link www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsz6KGVzFU0
Good Luck JBoy

[waveydavey]

+1 above

[jimmyhorns]

Im still learning to do them properly - the Grass roots judges will have to decide if I have it right or not

I started by doing tail down tic tocs - the reason for this is that you have a very easy way back to safety if it all goes wrong.

Start by practicing half flips, from tail in upright, to nose in inverted, and back again. Once you have these controlled, including being able to do them without a pause, you have your basic stick movements on both the collective and the cyclic. The timing is slightly different from tic tocs proper, but its close enough to give you a good idea.

Progressively shorten the half flip, so that you end up with 45 degrees each way about the knife edge (vertical). If you do this slowly you will bring in the slightly different timing, and working out how to give a punch of collective at the right time to maintain your height.

One of the main problems I had when trying to do these to start off with was that I was always loosing height, because my collective timing was out... Start high, and slowly work from the flips into the tic-toc and you will get it nailed. Depending on the sim you have you will find it easier or harder to do that in real life, I havent found one yet that is spot on

[waveydavey]

This is going to sound a bit zen, feel the tick tock through the move. Then you'll be able to speed up and slow down, you'll also be able to climb or descend. It took me ages to get them right but only when I stopped doing the movements robotically did they click both aileron and elevator. As James says above tail down gives you an out and it'll be familiar, tail in.

[mattscupoftea]

I would totally second the fact that the most important thing you will do toward tictocs is practicing backwards and forwards half flips. . .

A great place to start is hover at a decent height tail-in, 'pop' the collective a little to initiate a little climb motion, (eventually this will be worked down to imperceptible) which will take the loading off the rotor disk - and then pull back on the cyclic to execute a half flip, fading back to zero collective. At inverted nose-in, 'pop' a little negative collective to catch the heli into a hover, regain orientation and find a perfect tail in inverted hover, then 'pop' the negative collective to again unload the disk, (the heli can be seen to climb just a little bit) and push forward cyclic to flip back over to tail in upright, again fading back to zero collective during the manoeuvre. 'Catch' the heli there, and regain perfect stable hover.

These stable hovers are not going to be present in your final tictocs, but this part of the exercise will improve your quick responses and develop your corrective cyclic skills.

This exercise is one of the most useful (in my opinion) exercises in the path to learning tictocs. It teaches so many good skills and instincts.

It's where the sim really comes into its own, as you can easily burn a handful of lipos on this exercise in the field each time you train it otherwise. . . Run it for as long as you can bear - I always hear people stating how dull sim time can get, and fully understand that, but a few fifteen minute sessions of running such an exercise (force yourself!) brings such rewards in a whole range of tricks after a little while! It, although dull at the time, is enriching in the long run!

If you want challenges or variation when running that, try 'flipping the disk' in all orientations - so for example begin nose right, and use right cyclic to 'flip' the rotor disk towards you, then left cyclic to flip back (tail-in aileron tictocs). . . begin upright nose in, and push up-cyclic to 'flip' the disk towards from you again to inverted tail-in (nose down elevator tictocs).

For even more variation, make the cyclic input 'flip' the heli in different directions - start nose right and pop collective with a little back cyclic to inverted nose left hover, then 'flip' back (elevator tictocs) - describing a 'windscreen wiper' shape in the air. . . same can be done with aileron tictocs by beginning tail in and giving right cyclic. . .

So there are a heap of different orientations to dabble with whilst learning the classic tail down skids out (rotor disk towards you) tictoc.

All of the above exercises can then be 'sped up' once you get really proficient at 'hitting' a good level hover at each side (which shows good clean cyclic, rudder and collective control through the trick) you can make the 'pause' non existent at each hover point - more of a 'stall point' for the heli - where the rotation merely changes direction.

Once you get this feeling right (like a 'throw-catch-throw-catch' type thing) you can begin to catch the hover point in more of a dynamic moment - come off the cyclic at less than fully inverted, pop the collective to 'catch' the heli, and immediately use cyclic to 'flip' the heli back over whilst it is at its lowest disk loading. The collective that you put in not only catches the heli and holds the vertical height, but also stops the travel of the heli to a certain extent.

As time goes on, you will find that this motion naturally speeds up, and you gain more control over the heli to be able to 'throw' it from upright to inverted (TIC) and back to upright(sih) (TOC). When you watch the fancy-pants pilots with all due respect) doing tictocs, you must realise that they are often performing the above manoeuvre at much higher rotation rates, or 'throwing' the heli harder from one position to another and using the power of the modern machine to it's fullest in combination with perfect timing and control. They have taken the trick to it's furthest reaches.

That's been a bit of a 'train of consciousness' ramble, but I hope some of it helps - it's just stuff that I have read, watched, experienced and learned - regurgitated. Hope it helps!

[myxiplx]

There we go, Nick Maxwell's video, it's a great guide :-)

I wanted to learn all the orientations of tic-tocks, and the key there is being solid in all the orientations and all the flip directions. With any tic-tock, if you start it as either a flip or a large rainbow you just need to be comfortable with both the upright and inverted end points. So long as you have that foundation you just build from it.

It's just a case of keeping practising those rainbows / flips and stopping yourself a little shorter each time.

One of the key mistakes that's easy to make early on with a tic-tock is keeping collective for too long, pushing yourself down into the ground. You actually need to back off collective before you back off on the cyclic, and it takes a little practice to get that rhythm feeling natural. On my nitro it used to bog like crazy as I tried to dig myself out of the bottom of each tic, with more practice and better collective management they become a lot smoother, and a lot less demanding on the motor.

[Hamish]

I find if you give it more cyclic and collective than you think, I still can't do them properly, but it definitely helps!

[chrisleematt21]

Cheers for all the advice and tips I have a lot to practice!

[dieselcarb]

I find after a long day at work if I stare at the pendulum on the clock long enough im doing perfect tictocs until the better half grabs my head :-p